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What We Talk About

When you put out an offer – whether it's a new product you're launching, a service you're adding to your agency, or a coaching program… if it doesn't resonate with who you are as a business and a person… there will be a disconnect for your audience. Full stop.

That's why we asked Kelly Wittman to come and talk to us about how to use your brand to help you market your products, programs, and services. She'll walk us through exactly what a brand is – and how you can make it work for your next launch (whenever that is.)



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Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Jennie Wright 0:02
I'm going to admit, it wasn't so long ago, I was completely clueless on what it meant to be intentional about having a brand, creating a course product or package, and how this all interrelated for a cohesive feel to my business. It's something I learned in the trenches. It's something I learned through trial and error. But if you can learn it from an expert without having to go through all the mess and fuss that I had to go through, an Allison has to go through or had to go through. Isn't that better?

Kelly Wittman 0:35
I think so. We're really lucky today, because on today's show, we have an expert with us. And we're going to be talking to Kelly Whitman. Kelly Whitman is an amazing expert in her field, she knows everything there is to know about branding. We're incredibly excited to have her on Kelly, please say hi. Hello, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Not as excited

Jennie Wright 0:59
as we are to have you. Here's why. Allison and I talked about six key principles in the show. And for the things that we're not experts on, we bring in the big guns, we're bringing the experts, we bring in the people who know what they're talking about, so that not only can we educate the listeners, we can also educate yourselves like it's a win win.

Alyson Lex 1:20
I'll take that. That's kind of why I'm like super stoked, because I am admittedly a branding dummy. I have no idea. And I really excited to learn from you today.

Jennie Wright 1:35
Oh, yeah, it's gonna be fun. Alright, so let's start us off. And we're gonna, we're gonna rip this off from the point of view of,

if we don't know, we know a little bit about branding, but we don't know all the things right. So let's talk about what branding really is.

Kelly Wittman 1:50
Yeah, that's such a great place to start. And I like to first when I talk about a brand, I explain it in the way and like to think about it in a way as a person. So your business your brand, it's this human, it's got human characteristics, like a personality, different human traits. So understanding that then when we think about a brand as how people think, feel and act in relation to your business, so then, how do you get someone to think a certain way to act a certain way to feel a certain way, are through various brand elements like your color, excuse me, like your color, your logo, your fonts? And then also the things that you can't necessarily see, like, Who's your ideal client? What are your brand values? What do you stand for? Things like your packages, your packaging, your offering, this courses, products, everything goes into creating this experience, just like you as a person, all of the different experiences that you've had in your life go into creating who you are. Same thing with a brand.

Jennie Wright 3:03
I think it's really cool. Because when it comes to something like what Allison does, which is she writes, copy and copy converts, or I work on funnels, and help people sell their programs, products and services, and all those kinds of things. What I find with branding, and I've admittedly, learned branding, like I said, in the trenches. And what I find really interesting is that branding doesn't have the same quick ROI necessarily, it's more of a, I think it has like more of an intrinsic, all over ROI. It's like this unification of your messaging and your colors, and you're this and you're that, and it creates this cohesive image. And that pumps up.

Kelly Wittman 3:46
Yeah, you know, your recognition and all those wonderful things. And then you get to see an ROI is am I on the right track there? Yeah, it can be. Branding can be such an ambiguous idea and entity and also very frustrating because it is a little ambiguous. And for me, when I look at businesses and brands, and I feel this way, too, with my clients that when they come to work with me, what they say is, it just doesn't feel right. You can't always necessarily put your finger on why your brand and what you're doing kind of how you're showing up that experience that you're providing isn't fitting with you. It just doesn't feel right, which can also be frustrating. But to your point when we think about everything from the colors and the messaging and the fonts and the logos, they all go to create this experience and this overall, cohesive and consistent experience when it's all working well. You know, because it feels good and you're excited about how you're showing up. When it's not working. Well kind of the opposite happens. You know, you can be a little frustrated, But to your point, you don't always know until you start getting out there and taking action and showing up to then know, okay, what's not working, what can I change and tweak and update based off of the feedback that I'm getting from myself but also from my community.

Alyson Lex 5:14
To that point, one of the things that we we typically do in, in my world and Jenny's world to is we work to make the social the ad, or the social media posts, and the landing page, and the thank you page all feel like they're from the same people. I've seen somewhere. It's like, I've opted in here, but then I go there, and I don't feel like I'm at the same company anymore. And there's that disconnect. And so there is a way that having that cohesive brand does contribute directly to conversions, because you're gonna get better conversions if your ad and your landing page match.

Kelly Wittman 5:50
Yeah, well, you think about it from the perspective of if someone doesn't know anything about you, or your business or your brand, and they see a Facebook ad. And the experience that they're providing, or that they're getting from you is that your brand is fun and quirky, the colors that you're using are bright, the fonts that you're using are super bold, and you've got maybe a little bit of a snarky personality. And then they go to that landing page. And it's very calm and reserved, maybe there's different colors that are being used use, the brand voice is in a different is communicating a different message or a different communication style, then there's in consistencies and who do they trust, they trust the with what they saw on the Facebook ad? Or do they trust what they're seeing on the landing page. And then if you take it a step further, they go to that checkout page. And it's maybe goes back to what that experience had been in a Facebook ad. So again, when you think about those consistencies, and having that cohesive experience, it creates trust, because there's continuity, people know what to expect, and they know what they're building a relationship with.

Alyson Lex 6:57
Yeah, I have no more to say about that. That's awesome. I love the way that you said that. And it really did make kind of it made it easier for someone like me who I really like that hard and fast rule kind of thing, right? I like a super delineated. This is what it is. Branding has always been kind of heady and obscure, like you mentioned, it really is like, Okay, this is this is how it's used. This is really what it's used for. That's, that's really cool. So what guides, how you build that brand? Like the the design and the way it shows up of your sales page, your logo on the website, all that jazz? What, what kind of pushes you in that right direction? Yeah, that's

Kelly Wittman 7:43
a great question. And I would go back to what I had said before about, what do you want? Your brand personality? And what do you want that experience to be? So when you're able to kind of stay take a step back and think about the different touch points that someone has with your brand? How do you want them to think, how do you want them to feel? What kind of actions do you want them to take when they come in contact with your brand, whether it's on Instagram, or they see a Facebook ad or then they pop over to a landing page, when you can get really clear on how you want that experience to be how you want people to feel that then will guide the actual tangibles like the design aesthetic of your brand. So what colors should you be using? What fonts should you be using? What kind of language do you want to incorporate into how you communicate based off of what you want that experience to be? So for example, if you want to have if someone if you want someone who experiences your brand, to feel excited and motivated, and really empowered, you'll probably use bright and bold colors, you know, thinking about like things like color psychology, it doesn't have to be as scary as it sounds. But when we use certain colors, we can emote and embody certain feelings. So when you can get clear on how you want your brand to feel, you can then be intentional and strategic about the colors that you're using the same thing with fonts. And you can get again as minute as you want in the details. But it all comes back to that foundation of how do you want your brand to be experienced, and then making design decisions based on what your answers are to that.

Jennie Wright 9:34
Okay, that that you answered six questions in one I love you.

Alyson Lex 9:39
I was sitting here like all I have to remember to ask her about that. And then she's like, oh, here's an example. I was like, well, that's what I wanted. So yeah, that's what I wanted. So

Jennie Wright 9:46
you literally did it without us asking is perfect. Alright, so let me talk to you about colors. I want to talk to you about colors. I actually also want to talk to you about fonts, quite honestly. So I want to talk to the like to the two of them, and here's why. Whenever Building a sales page for a client. They sometimes will have a brand set. They may not have, you know, anything, but I am like persnickety as all believe in a bleep about fonts and colors. Okay, because I, for me to get conversion people there has to be a readability. Yes, it has to be flow. So for me having a sauce like a sans serif font as your headline font drives me batty and you know I can have some haters out there about that. And I sorry, not sans serif font, Sarah fonts drive me insane because of their readability. Yeah, I don't mind using a Sarah font as a punch out like an occasional thing that we can use. But something like having a serif font everywhere drives me insane. So that's my one point. And I'm gonna go to the next one real fast. The other thing is colors, colors. I've had clients who were like, my color is this really, really bold color? I'm talking practically neon purple. And they wanted it as their primary. And I'm like, No, but they're, it's my color. And I'm like, no, it's it's not because if we put neon purple all over the page, it's not going to attract your ideal client, your ideal client is going to be like, my retinas have burned to a crisp thing.

Kelly Wittman 11:24
And they're not going to take action, they're going to be like, like, you know, like it's gonna drive them insane. So, talk to me about colors. Talk to me about fonts. my happy place, please, ah, Jenny are hilarious. Um, yes. Okay. So when I work with clients, I use this idea called seasonal brand theory. And it was pioneered by this brilliant brand stylist named Fiona humberstone. She lives over in England. And she has two amazing books. One of them is brand, brilliance, and I can't see the title of the other one Oh, how to style your brand. So if you're interested in this idea, I would definitely encourage you checking her out. But basically, it's pairing color psychology with seasonal theory that was kind of pioneered back in the 80s, where the idea was every person is aligned with the season based off of your skin tone, and your hair color and your eye color. And depending on what season you matched up with you would dress them a certain way. So use a certain type of makeup and wear certain colors. From a styling perspective. Well, this stuff yes. Yeah. Isn't it great?

Jennie Wright 12:31
It's awesome.

Alyson Lex 12:33
Yeah, that's great. Yes.

Kelly Wittman 12:36
So you know, yeah, but there's this idea when to use it in with your brand is to understand what does your brand align with? What season does your brand align with? So based off of going back to what I had originally said, of, how do you want your brand to be experienced? And what do you want people to think and to feel when they do come in contact with your brand that then will help you align with a certain season that has specific attributes. So when we think about colors, so for example, if you're a spring brand, you are creative, you're excited, you're fun, you're super friendly, you're going to use bright saturated colors because they elicit those feelings you'll have clean and simple fonts because that are easy to read. Then when we go on to the summer brand if you're more elegant, more romantic, high quality, calm, a little aspirational, your colors will be more muted, more refined, like a toned down little bit D saturated version to help embody and elicit those feelings. Moving on to the fall brand. You really are more organic you seek knowledge thinking about really natural and in I always think of like the a the fall season so you have those saturated but darker moodier colors.

Jennie Wright 14:01
Oh that's so me darker booty. I love it.

Kelly Wittman 14:05
But that it's the whole point is to think about, okay, how can we use colors to help embody this feeling, thinking about fall, because you're all about the knowledge. It's chunkier font, like a saref to help more of that old style feel. And then when we go into the winter brand, it's a lot more minimal, very aspirational. And thinking about high contrast. So because winter is a very high contrast season. So your colors are high saturation, but a little bit on the darker side versus what you would have with spring where you have high saturation and more lighter colors. So using that that's kind of my first recommendation would be if this resonates with you, if you're specifically if you're struggling with finding colors for your brand, your course whatever your product is, try to figure out what season you're in and then You can also think about the fonts. So with spring, sans serifs are great because they're really about simplicity and creativity. And I am with you, Jenny, I like to use them more as the headers because they're so legible. Then we jump over to like the summer brand with this elegant and nice, elegant script font can be a good add on. So I think it depends on using them. I would be back up and say, when we think about colors, just specifically answer your question, colors and fonts. And if you're using something like a font that's more of a specialty, it's really great. And I use this as kind of a rule of thumb is to use them as accents, your colors and your fonts. If you're doing something that is more of like one of those handwritten fonts that might be a little bit illegible. If it's, if you're using it a lot. Oh, heck, you Same thing with the colors too. I think when you use them as more of an accent, they pack more of a punch, because they have contrast with the rest of everything else on the page.

Jennie Wright 16:06
Yeah, that's, that's a whole bunch of notes right there. And we will include the name of the author and the name of the books that Kelly is talked about in the resources section for this particular episode. So you can check that out at System to, forward slash two, seven, like 27. So the numerals two, seven, and you can go and grab, you know, everything that Kelly's talking about, we'll make sure is there and available for you. I think that was really interesting. And I want to follow up on that. To say that I you know, I was inserting some comedic relief into this episode, I'm not, I'm not all that crazy, and I don't freak out that much. But I do, I do kind of get my my knickers in a knot with where I do need to use whitespace whitespace is so underutilized. And I think it is actually part of branding, you know, and the lack of the lack of something, you know, having that whitespace, which is on a page or in your copy and the way it's displayed and everything, it's a visual thing, it's a visual way of using your brand that elicits a response, right? Uh huh. And whitespace, for me, allows

Kelly Wittman 17:16
the the elements on the page to stand out, the copy needs to stand up the pictures need to stand out the elements and the graphics. And that to me helps create that sort of that all around picture that'll help sell the program, the product, the service, the brand, the the website, we think about it, you know, we can get so excited about what we're selling. And what we're sharing, we want to pack in as much information as possible. I think, you know, the easiest example is, let's say you're making a graphic for Facebook, or Instagram, and you want to throw all of the information on there, because you're so excited about it. But then it can be overwhelming. And to your point, what I usually do when I'm designing something is I'll give the first draft, and then I'll take half of the stuff that's on there and remove it to give it a little bit more space to breathe, because then it has more of an impact. And it's easier to consume for the viewer. They're not as overwhelmed when they have so much that they need to their eyes have to travel over. That's a pro tip right there. I love that. And Allison is like furiously typing.

Alyson Lex 18:18
And I'm also feeling slightly and appropriately attacked and chastised, because I totally do. So I come from the world of the ugly sales page. And with the hardcore direct response copywriting, that's where I kind of cut my copy chops and all of that. And we didn't believe in whitespace. Like if there was whitespace, you didn't use enough. And like this is valuable real estate is something that was hammered into my head. So it's a constant battle for Jenny to she's like, Alison, we need whitespace gigabytes. So the fact that you were like, Oh, yeah, no, you can fill the whole image with text for social, I'm

Jennie Wright 19:15
just filling in all the fields, all the fields there. There's a support group if you

Alyson Lex 19:23
gonna need to come to that next meeting.

Jennie Wright 19:26

Alyson Lex 19:27
I know Jenny's in her element with talking about design and everything, but I'm a copywriter and I'm going to talk about words. So can we talk about naming things, my course my, my program, even my challenge or my summit, or anything that I'm launching? I kind of struggle with it. I've come out with stuff now and then but how should I start that process?

Kelly Wittman 19:53
Yeah. I i think i aligned with the idea of the The simpler, the better in the sense that, if you can, can you be literal with what you're doing? So Have either of you read or heard about the story brand?

Jennie Wright 20:11
Yes, yes. Yep.

Kelly Wittman 20:13
So Donald Miller has this great idea about if your business name doesn't explain what you do. And that's what the purpose of the tagline. And if your business name does, then your tagline can be a little bit more cutesy. And I kind of use that same philosophy and idea with, you know, thinking about your courses and naming courses or naming challenges or packages is that the less work you have to do and explaining what it actually is, the more attention and focus you can put on actually selling and explaining what the course is, you don't have to worry about saying, okay, no, this is the name of my course. But it has, it's a little ambiguous, it doesn't really talk about what the course is doing. So I first have to explain that. And then I can dive into the content of the course. So I would say, maybe take the path of least resistance and try to choose a name that does the work for you in the sense of explaining what your course is. So for example, I am in a couple weeks releasing a course about brand messaging, and I decided on the branded message, because I wanted it to a talk about what it was doing. But you know, it doesn't have to be exact, so it has a little bit of a creative flair to it. But in and of itself. If someone just sees that logo, they know intuitively that it has to do with brand messaging, at least I would hope. So that's I guess that's kind of My take is what's the path of least resistance and the easiest for you to market. And so I have a I have a follow up to that. And in my world of building summits and challenges and things like that, where Alyson ends up writing 99% of the copy half the time anyways,

Jennie Wright 22:02
I work with clients who are trying to create legacy titles. So we're creating a title that we'll be using for the next two, three or four seasons, for their summit their challenge. So there's a rinse and repeat factor.

Alyson Lex 22:15
Mm hmm.

Jennie Wright 22:16
And what I've always liked doing and what I found connects well, but I'm open to change or learning about this more. So I'm hoping you'll you'll either correct me chastise me or applaud me is that I like taking something that the title is short, sweet to the point. But the tagline is the thing that we can embellish and change. Mm hmm. And I like this is the this is where I this is where maybe I'm right or wrong with branding. I like the name of the course. Sorry, I like the name of the list build the summit or the challenge to match the end product course.

Yeah, because I want to create that unification where I joined the ABC XYZ challenge. And then when a client

starts talking about the ABC XYZ course, there's not the there's not a you know, there's, there's no break in there, it feels natural and smooth.

Is that smart?

Kelly Wittman 23:16
I would say so. Okay, um, I would first say, I honestly don't think there is really any right or wrong. Branding rules. I know that is probably going against all of the things. But I think with branding, we have to figure out what's working for us. And as long as you're taking action, and then experimenting and evaluating what's working for you and what's not, and then changing and pivoting and updating as necessary. I think you're on the right track, because we can get so bogged down in wanting it to be perfect and right the first time that we end up not doing anything.

Jennie Wright 23:51
That Yeah, I

Kelly Wittman 23:53
guess I just I want to clarify that I think we can I just I don't think there's a hard right or wrong rule if it's working for you, and you're getting great results from it. Heck, yeah, keep going. If it's not working for you might be time to evaluate and figure out what you can do differently. But to your point of, does that make sense? Totally. Because again, when we step back and think about our entire business and our brand as this overarching experience, you want there to be consistency, whether or not they have had the touch point of the summit, or they're seeing you for the first time at the course. But if they sell both, it's great to have that same aesthetic and style and feel so that you're building trust, and they know So thinking about it from the perspective of if they had a really great experience at this summit, it's going to be that much easier for you to sell the course because they know the level that they're going to have. So you've already warmed them up at this point A and then when they get to point B they can look back and say Oh, this looks very similar, at least from my aesthetic and design. standpoint, I can expect the same caliber of value and the results that I got from the challenge. And

Jennie Wright 25:07
that makes so much sense.

Alyson Lex 25:10
I wanted to really quick too, because you mentioned that way back before Johnny even had her question, I had a whole nother one too. So you mentioned about the tagline can also help do some of the work about telling, you know, explaining what you do. And I just really wanted to talk about that again, because I love it. I think so many people are so focused on trying to cram all of this information into three or four words of a title, that they don't allow themselves the space to actually explain things. And so I don't even know that there's really a question there. I just wanted to talk about it again.

Jennie Wright 25:52
I listen, no, it's a good point. It's a point worth mentioning, again, simply because this is a conversation that we have with clients

Alyson Lex 26:01
all the time.

Kelly Wittman 26:03
Constantly, Kelly, you must have it too. It's it's one of those things that it's, it's almost like Hi, I you know, I talk about branding, welcome to my TED talk, and you just have to like repeat it

Jennie Wright 26:15
over and over and over again.

It just makes you know, and it's a hard thing for some people to grasp. That's why we're talking about it, you know, because it's a it's a challenge to grasp some of these concepts. And if you can get your head around it. And if you can create this unification in your business and in your brand,


what you're doing, I personally think is you're removing a lot of the mental work that makes people wonder, okay, her Instagram profile is purple and orange. Her website is teal, and pink. And her Facebook page is brown and tan.

Who are we? Right? If you're just talking colors, right? You know, I've worked with I've worked with several clients over the years where when I've, because I come I come in sometimes and I do the Superwoman thing, where I put on my little cape, I come and I fix the mistakes. So people come and they say, somebody built this, it's absolute poop on a stick, can you please fix it? And I'm like, no problem, I got you. And I come in, and I put on my little Superwoman cape. And I'm like, this is it, and I fix it all up. And they're like, Oh, my God, this is so wonderful. The reason I have to do that is sometimes I'll come into a page, and they'll be five or six different fonts, six or seven different colors, sizes all over the place. And it doesn't match anything anywhere else on the internet with them. So in that case, Kelly, how would you? How would you as the expert in this? How would you handle a client like that? What would you say to them?

I know what I would say,

Kelly Wittman 27:56
Well, I think we've all been there. So I would first just say, hey, it's okay to you know, give yourself some grace. Because more often than not that person who has x, y and z over on Instagram and ABC over on Facebook and lmnop on their website, they're probably DIY in their brand. And they probably have been DIY and all of the things in their business, they're overwhelmed, I would wager to bet that they know there's in consistencies, it's not a surprise to them, which is why they would be reaching out to someone like you to help put on the Superman hat and go in and fix it. So I would first just say that, hey, you're not alone, I think, no, going back to what I was saying before, we can feel like we have to get it so perfect. But we end up not doing anything. And the same can be for feeling shame of like, Oh, crap, I you know, I know that this was so bad. And that's not going to get us anywhere. So I would first just say, hey, it's okay. But then it's going back to that foundation of which one of these let's just say personalities of your brand actually feels right to you, and that you want to move forward with and getting really clear on what is your brand? What's that personality? What's that experience that you want to provide? And then going through and figuring out okay, what are my next steps? What do I have to update from here. So if I really like the personality of my website, and that feeling and the experience that my website is providing, I'm really honing in on my messaging there. Everything that I'm talking about how I talk about what I do, who I'm targeting, that's so aligned. Now I know that I need to then inject that personality and that experience into my social media channels, my email, all of the other touch points that someone might have with my brand. But if you're still in that place of not if you haven't gotten clear on what that foundation is what that experience is that you want it to be. It's kind of a moot point to try to update anything else because you'll be back at square One of having in consistencies. When you don't I found when you aren't clear on those foundations of Who do you serve? You know, why do you serve? What are you really providing them? How are you structured against and positioned against other people in your space, then that's when you really get those in consistencies, because you don't know what exactly you're doing, and you don't have that clarity.

Alyson Lex 30:25
So I can speak to this because my first brand, and actually my LLC is rock your marketing. Um, I had this idea that I wanted to have all this rock star themed everybody was a rock star. And, um, because I like rock music, I don't know. And my colors were like, green, black and silver. Oh, fun, very fun, except they were very dark and rock star. This was clearly a DIY. And when I realized, okay, maybe I need to rebrand. I just kind of switched it over. And one day, I was working in marketing, and the next day, I was like, and that was the switchover. And I'm sure people got confused. When it was like, not that I was super visible anyway. But how do you shift gears the right way, if you want to move into something new, or go into a different niche, or if you've been DIY and yet, fix it? With your help? How do you do that without confusing people?

Kelly Wittman 31:32
Yeah, that's a really great question. And I think, kind of to your point to pigeon off of what you said, if you're in this space of Okay, I think it's time to shift gears, I think it's time to pivot my brand. You first have to understand why, you know, why is it time? Is it because that maybe you have DIY everything. So there's a lot of that in consistencies. Or maybe you don't have, you're not excited at all to show up for your business as it sits right now. Okay, then, you know, that's going to help us figure out what the next step is. Or maybe you're pivoting to an entirely new ideal client, and you want to serve new people, or you're having a name change, or you're shifting from working in maybe more of the service provider space, and you want to go into a personal brand space. So getting clear on what's the reason for that shift and that pivot, so that you then know what the next right step is. And then I would say figure out, Okay, now I know why I know why I want to make this change. Do I want to hire out and find a professional brand, strategist and designer to work with? Or is this something that I have the capacity to take on myself? And understanding that because again, that'll help you figure out what's, what's your next right step? If you're going to hire out someone, then it's time to find someone who's going to be a good fit for you and your business? If you want to DIY it yourself, then I would encourage you to understand what is kind of the base question to start with is, what is the experience providing right now? And how do you want that perception to shift? And then start making changes towards what you want that experience to be? And I know that's a really simplistic answer, and there's a lot more that can go into it. But I think that's a really great place to start. And then so once we've worked with you or not ourselves, but let's face it, we're gonna have to work with an expert like you.

Alyson Lex 33:31
How do we like do we announce it? Is it a party? Or do we just do what Alison did maybe do that and just show up that way, the next day?

Kelly Wittman 33:41
I think it's fun to announce it. And I guess it depends on what feels good for you, and what what aligns with how you want to show up. I think I'm working with an interior designer right now. And she's making we're making a pretty big shift in her brand. And she's just gotten really, really clear on what she wants and how she wants to serve. So she's been doing Facebook Lives just to talk about her business, and why she's making this change. And she's been going on stories and saying, hey, I've got a refresh, coming. And this is why I'm doing it because I'm really honing in on. So for her we're talking, she made this, like put the stake in the ground for this idea of functional design. So she's talking about different aspects of what functional design means to her. So when we think about branding, and if you're working with a professional or you're DIY, and again, going back to why do you want to do that shift. I think it's important to tell your community and you can let them in on the process. And then explain to them, hey, I've DIY up to this point, I'm now partnering with so and so designer, I'm so excited. We're going to be launching in a couple of weeks stick around to see the new refresh. I can't wait to get your feedback, and it's a great opportunity for you to let your community in on that. process so that they're kind of rooting for you, and you're building another stake of that relationship. And then they have some say, and they, you know, have the support of this transition for you. But I think the more authentic and transparent you can be about the shift, the stronger your relationship is going to be with your community.

Alyson Lex 35:19
I love that. I love Actually, I cannot I'm not to go realism to this 12 times and take notes because the season burnt the seasonal brand theory. I have to go buy those books. Oh, my God, you feel super into it now. And I want to know, and want to know what season I am. So I know if I'm wearing the right. But I know you have a lot more expertise and a lot more things you have a resource library that you you've put together. Can you tell us how people can get that?

Kelly Wittman 35:53
Yes, I would love to share that with your listeners. If you go to when there is a tab that says resource library, you can join that there's a ton of free resources all around helping you build your brand from helping you get clear on your ideal client to your brand values to your brand strategy. Lots of great stuff in there. And Yep, I'd love for them to check it out.

Alyson Lex 36:16
Absolutely. And just for people like me who need things repeated, that is wit and company, that's wi t t, a n d, company all spelled out. We'll also link to that on our show notes. So that you can go ahead and grab that resource library. Is that the best place for people to get in touch with you? How How would we get in touch with you? Yeah,

Kelly Wittman 36:38
you can check me out on my website. Otherwise, I do have a free Facebook group called the brand building collective I do we weekly, Facebook Lives all around helping you build a strong and cohesive brand. So I'd love to see your listeners in there as well. That would be great. Those two are the best places.

Jennie Wright 36:56
Awesome. Yeah,

Alyson Lex 36:57
that's fine. So much. We'll link to that in the show notes too. Yep,

Jennie Wright 37:01
links everywhere. Links. for everybody. You get a link, you get a link.

Alyson Lex 37:07
Good brand.

Kelly Wittman 37:08
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now we're gonna have to use the Oprah GIF. Like when we talked about this episode, we're gonna

Alyson Lex 37:16
I totally we should make a note of that.

Jennie Wright 37:18
Yeah, definitely do that. Kelly, thank you so much for enlightening us today telling us stuff. I mean, I, I thought I knew.

But now I feel like I'm like a student of again. So I always feel like I'm learning something brand new. And I appreciate the time and everything where you're explaining to us and to re listening more about brand, what it means and why it's important. That cohesive feel and everything and I really think you did an amazing job. So thank you so much for being on with us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. It was my absolute pleasure. And I really appreciate you having me on.

Absolutely. So thank you everybody for listening, also and I will be back again with another show answering another big question next time.



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