Excited to have Jason Wiehler back on the podcast to talk about how you can avoid becoming another online business horror story.
From failed joint ventures to big gargantuan niche problems that lead to devastating launches, we’re peeling back some layers to reveal what not to do and how to avoid it.
Alyson Lex 0:03
We've all heard the horror stories, the marketing fo pas the things that people talk about, for years as examples of what not to do. And so we think we have a general idea of how to avoid becoming those horror stories. But today, we have Jason Wheeler, who's a tactical marketing expert, a nice, special niche specialist, because I was trying to say it his way, and Jenny's way, instead of niche, like I like to, he's a nice specialist. And he's going to talk to us about how to avoid becoming those horror stories in the first place. So Jason, thanks for being here with us.
Jason Wiehler 0:41
Thanks for having me. Thanks for the lovely intro. And yeah, it is nice. So it's okay to say it that way. That is actually the proper way.
Alyson Lex 0:50
I feel like we have this argument every time we talk. But let's dive into some marketing horror stories. What's like the worst one you've heard lately?
Jason Wiehler 1:03
The worst one I've heard lately, or the worst one I've ever heard.
Alyson Lex 1:06
Let's start with lately and move on from there.
Jason Wiehler 1:13
You know, the worst one I've ever heard lately is probably having to do with joint ventures. And I think, I think a lot of people are very, very excited to do joint ventures, because it opens up a whole bunch of possibilities. And it's a really, really good opportunity for anybody. You know, if you partner up with the right person, to do a project, things can go really, really well. For instance, Jenny and you doing this podcast together, that's a great joint venture. But there are other times when people get in a joint venture, and they've entered into it under false pretenses, or with not enough information, or maybe they weren't, maybe their goals, or, or their businesses weren't actually aligned perfectly. And basically, from the time they start, it's all downhill from there, it doesn't actually improve it actually just, they think it's going to so they keep on going. But it actually just continually gets worse until it finally fails. And it's not just the business failure, that can be a friendship, failure, and there can be some animosity, and then there's people that aren't talking anymore, or whatever. But that can actually happen. And it's one of the worst waste of time you can ever happen because people just don't do their due diligence with the people that they're going to joint venture with.
Jennie Wright 2:37
But what's the fallout from that, in the business?
Jason Wiehler 2:42
Follow from that in businesses, if you go into a joint venture, and let's say, the two people start working with people together, no joint venture disintegrates. The clients or the customers on the end of that, they can get split up or everybody loses.
Alyson Lex 3:03
So how do we avoid getting into that situation in the first place? I know you mentioned something about doing your due diligence. But what does that really mean? What does that really look like?
Jason Wiehler 3:13
Well, I think one of the most important things about due diligence is patience. I think you really have to think you need to take a little bit more time to assess who it is that you're partnering with. You really need to get to know them. You can't. It's great when you you see the internet version of people, you know how people have a telephone voice. I feel like people have an internet persona. And what ends up happening is people have put that persona on constantly, constantly. And then when you really, really get to know them, which could be weeks or months down the road, you'll realize that that's not who they really are. Right? But if you dive into that joint venture, without being patient, with that persona, you don't know what you're going to get you don't know what you're in store for, right? Because how people try to present themselves to you might be completely different about them the way they they operate in their daily lives, the way they relate to friends, a joint frant, joint joint partnership or anything like that as a joint venture. It teeters on the verge of being a friendship, right. And some of them have become very strong friendships. Some of them have become very professional business partnerships. But there's still that friendship aspect of it. Well, I really don't know who you're going to be dealing with.
Jennie Wright 4:36
True. And that's just one of the big like, that's just one of the main four stories that people can sort of fall into with that. What are the other ones that you can fall into and what are the real distinct things that can happen to your business as a result, like what granular stuff can we pull from us? With joint ventures? No, I want to move from joint ventures and I want to talk about other types of horror stories and See how those also play into? You know? How do we avoid them? And what are the ramifications if we don't kind of thing?
Jason Wiehler 5:10
Well, I'll save my best one for last, but I'll use this one. People running the clock out on themselves. There's a lot of people that are entering into the online business space. And they might be getting advice, or they might be making calculations as to how long it's going to take to do something or how long they should give themselves in order to complete a task or a goal. So it could be, it could be creating a sales page, it could be creating a funnel, it could be, you know, getting a summit, for instance, prepared or whatever and the timing of all of that, they're saying, I'm going to give myself two weeks for this stuff this much time for promo, and I'm gonna do this not the other thing. That's great. you've planned it out, you might have planned it out incorrectly, if you didn't get the right help. But nevertheless, you planned it out. But everybody gives themselves so much slack with their own schedule, that they run the clock out. And then what happens is, they're down to that last 20% of their time left of what they've calculated to do a task, and they find themselves rushing to complete the task, instead of creating something that's quality, that is supposed to work the way they intended it to be. And it's not, because they ran the clock out. Now they're just, they're just racing against clock, just the hit the launch date, or the completion date, instead of actually, you know, doing it carefully following a consistent, you know, agenda in order to produce something really, really good.
Alyson Lex 6:47
So how does this actually affect the launch? So, from what I think you're saying is, they're still getting it done? By the launch date? Right?
Jason Wiehler 6:58
Is this a family radio show? Yes. Okay, so no curse words, okay, they produce crap. You end up producing a product that doesn't live up to your standards, even your own standard, let alone the people that potentially are going to actually view it, or purchase it, or whatever it is, right. And, you know, for some breeds, for some reason, people let that happen. And then when the project is over, and the results come in, and they're not good. They have reason to explain why the project is not good. They say Well, the reason it goes so well is because didn't quite didn't quite get it done the way I wanted it to. And that's why the numbers are low. That's great. But that's the root of the problem is the person themselves that didn't execute it on time, that didn't actually, you know, plan it out and executed and do the work in the space of time to produce something of quality, so that you don't afterwards explain to yourself how you produce something poor and poor results from that. You've just wasted all that time. Now. It's a disaster.
Alyson Lex 8:06
So how do we prevent that? What like, what do we need to do to prevent that from happening?
Jason Wiehler 8:11
Well, if you're new, the best thing you can do is hire somebody or consult with somebody that actually knows how long it does take to do that. So I think when you look at yourselves, one being a copywriter, the other person being very good at at doing marketing projects, and everything else in a strategy, consult with people like you and understand have somebody tell you, this is how much work it's going to take this how much time it's going to take for your part in order to make this work. And also have that either have that person who's consulting with you be the accountability person, or have an accountability partner, that will keep you on track? If you can do it all on your own. Great. But if you can't, then you should definitely be speaking with somebody who can consult you on that, because I can tell you there like I'm sure you guys can probably relate to right from the beginning. This total miscalculation, right from the get go as to how long things really take.
Jennie Wright 9:11
Yeah, I will completely agree with that. 100%, especially when it came to actually producing the podcast. In the beginning, we didn't have any clue whatsoever. But, you know, we've learned along the way. Can people actually do all of this on their own successfully? Isn't that sort of being a jack of all trades? Should they potentially, like you were saying earlier, should they be sticking to the one thing and having other people be in there to make sure that they can stay on track? Would that be better or is it totally okay to be doing all that on their own?
Jason Wiehler 9:46
I'm gonna say, and this is gonna sound really strange saying I'm going to say they should 100% get somebody else to help them. And the reason I say that is there's very few reasons why they should do it on their own. Okay. should do it on their own. If they have no way in how being able to actually hire somebody, like, if they've got no money and they're starting from zero, they can't afford to hire somebody, then they can try and look up ways online and try and get as much free help as they can, and try and do it that way. Right? If you look at an example of somebody build their own house, right? No, you shouldn't build your own house, you're not a home builder, right, you don't know how to do, you don't know how to do electricity, you don't know how to do the plumbing, you don't know how to do the brickwork, the foundation or whatever. Right? You could, I mean, if you really can't afford people, you could, and it's going to take you a long time, and it might not turn out right, actually, it might not even pass code. So it might fail right there. But the truth is, is you should be doing what you do in life, or in business, you should be doing what you do in business. And other people should be taking care of the marketing aspect of it, or the strategy aspect of it. Because when you initially go into doing an online business, let's say you're a personal health coach, or whatever, you didn't sign up for becoming a chief marketing officer. That's not what you signed. That's not what you got into that business for you didn't say I'm I'm you know, I'm going to teach people on health and coaches and, and get their lives back on track with their health. But I'm going to take on the task of becoming, you know, jack of all trades, and no marketing, online marketing inside and out and do it myself. Because it is a big thing all on its own, it will overtake everything that they're doing.
Alyson Lex 11:45
What do you think of those people who emulate the quote unquote, successful people hoping that by doing what they do that they'll have the same level of success?
Jason Wiehler 12:00
You know, I think there's some merit into duplicating some of the strategies that work. But, you know, most of the time, I mean, if you see somebody who is high level that is succeeding, and they're doing a webinar, and that webinar has 1000 people show up to it, or 500, people, whatever, which is a big number these days for a webinar, you can't realistically expect to do exactly what they're doing and end up with the same results, because you didn't see what happened the previous 10 years, while these people were trying to succeed. You didn't see what they were doing when they were in your spot, you're trying to do what they're doing in their spot. It just doesn't align. It's backwards, right? If you could duplicate what they did day one on your day one, great, but don't try and do what they're doing on day 3000. Right, you're not going to do it, you're not going to get the same results. They're connected, they have a network, they have followings. You know, it just doesn't work. They strategy. Yeah, they have a team? Of course they do. But the strategies, some of them are sound. a novice person can't translate a very advanced strategy down to a starting point and might not even be the right one to them. So like, I mean, no, you just you don't do that. And it's going to be very obvious. Sure. It's another thing, right? I mean, people who are very well known, millions of people might have seen their videos. And then you go and create one and everybody goes, Oh, yeah, they did just what so and so did who they think they are. Absolutely. So it becomes a bit laughable.
Jennie Wright 13:43
It does become a bit laughable. Now, you've teased us for a little while now. Now, you talked earlier about your biggest horror story and how you're going to wait till the very end to tell us Are you ready to tell us about that yet?
Jason Wiehler 13:55
Yeah, the number one, always with me, it always comes down to niche always comes down to niche. Because every time I've seen somebody entrant to the business, or an online business, no matter what it is, they're doing they, they think they have this, they have an idea, but they do not have the big picture. They do not see everything, they don't see it from every angle, they they have a message. It could be very small message. They don't realize it's small, because to them, it's you know, they don't know how big it is compared to what's out there. But they haven't they have a message and they think it's accurate. They think it's going to, you know, basically attract the attention of everybody on the internet and everybody's going to know that they're there and everybody's going to visit their site or their social media at least once and you know, I've arrived and you go but it's it's not and their message as much as people don't like to admit it. Their first message could be very, very vague and they don't even know it. Right. And I was I was talking about this earlier. I use the I use an explanation when it had to do with golf. Right? where somebody says, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to start off and I'm going to have like a lead magnet. And I'm going to talk about five things you could do right now that will lower your score by 10 points. Well, that's great. sounds lovely. But you know what, I'm a golfer, I'm actually a golfer, I could name off a dozen things that could actually reduce my score. So that message right there really won't capture my attention. Right? It's actually niching down and becoming very, very accurate. Right? If somebody said, or somebody offered a lead magnet, and they said, Here's five things Phil Mickelson does, in order to improve his short shots with his chipping wedge. Okay, there's a whole lot of things in there. That narrows it down. First of all, if you're a golfer, you know who Phil Mickelson is, if you're a really good golfer, you know exactly what your pitching wedge is, and you know, the troubles you have with it. And you might not personally know, five things that can help you improve your shot with your pitching wedge. So the ideal client or customer would gravitate towards that, because they would feel that there's valuable information in it that they don't even have in their own head or could conceive in their own mind. But they'd like to see it. They not only want it, they consume it, right. So using that example, there are people that start the business with a very vague message. And they might go down the road, one year, two year, three years with that same vague message going sideways or worse. Like failing slowly, until finally, it doesn't work and the whole time. They weren't niched in. And it was, it was that mistake that was in their blind spot. They didn't detect it. They thought it was their marketing strategy. They thought it was the joint ventures that failed them. They thought maybe, oh, I ran up the clock on myself. These are examples that I used in, in what we were talking about earlier, all the things that went wrong, they thought all those things were the thing, they didn't think they're nice was nothing, but it actually was.
Alyson Lex 17:14
So how do you know when you're going in the wrong direction? How do you know if you're just taking time to be successful versus no chance of being successful? Does that make sense?
Jason Wiehler 17:30
Well, I can tell you about the no chance of being successful. It's when you can't raise dollar one. You know, it's when it's when your product, or your service can't sell itself, because I think that's the mark of somebody who's successful. If you've got a good reputation as a consultant, and you're serving people, if you're doing it, well, it will sell itself because word of mouth is a very powerful thing. If you've got a great product, and it's helpful to people or it's entertaining to people, and it serves a purpose, it will sell itself. If you don't if you really have to like if you really have to push to get one sale of a product. And even then the person isn't totally satisfied. Your your failing. Failure is eminent. Right? Because what's the difference between a good idea and a bad idea?
Jennie Wright 18:34
You think by that? Like I actually really like that example. Do you think by that example, if you have no word of mouth, and you're just starting out, you have no social, you have no list, you have no following whatsoever. But you have a really great, really great product you think. And you try and get it out there and nobody's listening to you just because you have no skill to do that. Are you still failing? And what's your next step?
Jason Wiehler 18:59
Having no skill can be easily remedied by hiring the right people. And it takes us It takes a strong person and a smart person and a wise person to realize that early. Right. It's, it's the difference between I'm going to beat myself up for three months, or I'm going to skip the part where I beat myself up for three months, and I'm going to hire somebody to fix this for me. Right. And a lot of a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people do. A lot of people throw themselves a beating for like three months. It's like, relentless. It's like, yeah, I'm going to still try and do it myself. Oh, God, I can't watch. And then the other part of it is, if you're starting out, you have zero. You still have to have patience. I mean, you're not going to be able to judge it off the first person's reaction that like to be accurate about my point. You're still going to have to be patient, you're going to have to give yourself some runway as far as how long can you pitch this idea before you really know It's not working, and how big how many people need to see this before I can get an idea, right? Because as much as people like to think that you get on the internet and things just take off, they don't even most experienced people when they're pitching on a webinar, they might close one out of 100 people. And that's still counted as a success. Right. So for the newbie that's coming in, you might have to find a way of having three 4000 people get a look at your product or service. Before you start inching forward.
Alyson Lex 20:41
I am so thankful that you came and shared this information because you're right. It is really difficult to, to try and build your own success and be patient and overcome all of the bad habits that we all have, especially when you're trying to emulate I really liked how you said, emulate somebody day, whatever, when you really need to emulate their day one. So where can our listeners find more about you?
Jason Wiehler 21:10
Well, they could find me on Instagram, Jason Wheeler, and they can find me on my website, which is Jason miller.com. Or they can, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. They can listen to my podcast called it all works. And that's on every, almost every single distribution channel.
Jennie Wright 21:30
We're happy about the cross promotion, and you can talk about your podcast all day.
Jason Wiehler 21:34
I want to do something else, though, if I can't I want to ask you guys, what was your worst example of a failure, that turned out to be a good lesson that you've ever experienced?
Jennie Wright 21:50
Mine was definitely a failed joint venture.
Jason Wiehler 21:55
can't reuse one of you can't.
Jennie Wright 21:57
But um, I mean, well, actually, you know what the other one it wasn't mentioned today was the overuse early on in my business of a little bit of some of the bro marketing techniques that weren't synonymous and in synchronicity with who I am trying to find the right word there. But yeah, I struggled in the beginning to find my voice. And I think one of the things I did is I definitely went down the wrong rabbit hole in terms of how I was coming across, I think I was coming across way too, like forceful slash maybe masculine, I don't know the right wording for it. But it really wasn't the right approach. And it was a turnoff in the beginning. And that was a problem, that was definitely a problem, because the majority of my audience was female, and women who had not been in a corporate environment like me, or not been in a retail environment like me where it was like, just get it on, you know, work hard, play hard, you know, work, you know, work 15 hours straight, and then sleep for an hour, and then come back and do it again. Like, they didn't have that experience. And the expectation of me talking like that, or even hoping that they would understand it was there was a huge disconnect. So that was a little bit of a problem. Until I sort of figured things out.
Alyson Lex 23:19
For me, there was, you know, I invested in some help. And it I, you know, I thought it was the right move for me, and I'm, I'm probably let my excitement get in front of my due diligence, if I'm being completely transparent, and taking ownership of, of that mistake. And they, this this group, kind of coached me on some things and it wasn't in line, again, wasn't in alignment with who I am and how I like to run my business. Nor was it in line with where I was in my business at the time. And so I invested money in the program, as well as time and, and effort and energy and all of that good stuff into creating something that ultimately was not wanted by my market. And that kind of sucked, but but I learned a lot. I also have taken that as I can, I can look at this in two ways. One, I've invested all this money and I can cry in my soup about the money being gone. Or I can say I've invested this money and now I'm going to do what I need to do to make that a worthwhile investments. So I was able to use it to spur me on to create more visibility in my business to finally do some of the things that Jenny has been telling me for about Yours that I should do. And she's been wanting to wring my neck for, I think, probably 5.9 of those years. So, you know, I was able to take something that was a mistake, which was not doing my due diligence, it wasn't a JV situation, but it was an investment in a program. But then I was also able to learn a lot about myself my ability, and just create, create some good out of it.
Jason Wiehler 25:32
That's a perfect, sometimes you win. Sometimes you learn situation,
Alyson Lex 25:35
that's exactly it.
Jennie Wright 25:38
Like that actually enjoyed this conversation, it's been helpful, because it's a little bit different than what we normally do. But that's also enjoyable as well. We always love having Jason on the podcast, this is his second appearance, and I am sure it will not be his last. You know, we do have to mention again, that Jason does have his own podcast, it's called the it all works podcast, it's really, really good. There's a lot of insight in there. And you know, if you like hearing that awesome voice, go listen to it on the podcast, it's pretty great. And he's got really great content as well. So we're going to wrap this up with a couple of takeaways, and then we are just going to say that it's been a good day for this. I'm going to go with the first takeaway, which is copying and emulating somebody else's day 23,642 and hoping that it'll be a success. When you're starting on day one. It's not going to work, don't try and do it really have to look at what other people's day one. And actually, you know, we had this conversation, I think all three of us not too long ago, where if somebody was looking at me and my date, you know, my year nine, versus Allison's year, what now 13. So I'm like that you're 13. And then hoping that you can emulate the success that the success that we're having now versus where we both are struggling at day one, it's just not gonna work. Don't try it. So stop making that comparison.
Alyson Lex 27:05
For me, of course, you know, I've got to talk about messaging, being very incredibly specific with your messaging, but also with your offer. So your niche, your niche, your target is not just about your words, it's about your offers, learn from my mistake, my people did not want my offer. Understand what they really want, and how the best way is, it is for you to to sell that to them to offer that to them. And that all starts with being super specific about your niche.
Jennie Wright 27:43
I'm just going to say that the word Nish doesn't have a T in it. And it actually is you know, and I see h i n g, if you're saying nishank or Nish with an E, there's no t i don't know where that comes from. But anyways, we'll just keep going. So my, my second takeaway is that niching in very tightly, and beginning to like really niching and tightly and making sure that you do that very much in the beginning of what you're trying to do is going to help you better in the long run than going wide. Jason made a really good comparison earlier about golfing, you know? And if you want to like would you How would you sign up for lead magnets like five keys to tightening up your short game in golf? Or would you rather get the, you know, the three things that so and so does to with their such and such club to achieve such and such result. Like that's way more nation and it is way more something that I if I was into golfing that I would want to look at so take a look at really dialing in on that niche getting super specific, because that's how you're going to get those light bulb moments where your ideal people are going to be like, yes, please, I want the thing. And it's gonna identify those hot and ready leads.
Alyson Lex 29:01
My second takeaway is that hiring expert help when you need expert help is a smart move in your business. And my story might make you a little afraid. But if you do your due diligence, it will be a good thing. So do your due diligence, hire the help when you need the help. That's all I have to say about that.
Jennie Wright 29:32
Jason, we're just really thankful that you took the time to be on with us, again, with the System to THRIVE podcast. We're sure we'll have you back again sometime hopefully very soon, so that you can share some really cool information. Nish is the way to go. Go and check out what Jason's doing. Thanks so much, Jason. We'll be back. We'll be back again soon answering another big question.