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What We Talk About

What’s the difference between a therapist and a coach? Why does it seem that so many entrepreneurs are into personal development? What’s the big deal about my mindset anyway?

Sarah Madras is not just a coach, she’s a trained therapist – which means she understands exactly what you’ll get from therapy and coaching (yes, they’re different) and when it’s important to seek each. She’ll explain to us how you can take steps TODAY to work on your mental health and where your focus should be.


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Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:01
On today's episode, we're answering the question, What does working on my mental health have to do with my business and a really quick trigger warning because today we will be talking about mental health therapy and other potentially triggering topics. So if you or someone you know needs support, please seek out your local services. thriving in business does not mean you have to lose yourself, it does not mean following cookie cutter advice.

Jennie Wright 0:27
What it means is finding what works for you, for your audience and for your business. And working the process until you get to the level of success that you're looking for.

Alyson Lex 0:36
This podcast is designed to give you the tools and inspiration to build your business on your terms.

Jennie Wright 0:42
I'm Jennie Wright.

Sarah Madras 0:43
I'm Alyson Lex,

Jennie Wright 0:44
and welcome to the System to THRIVE.

Alyson Lex 0:48
We've talked a little bit here and there about what working on your mental health can do. As a business owner and an entrepreneur, what we haven't really dived into too much is the difference between therapy and coaching, and when it's appropriate for both. So when we talk to Sarah Madras about therapy and coaching, she really can offer an incredible perspective. See, she used to do the therapy thing. Now she does transformation coaching. And so she can really give us a full picture. Now, a note, neither Jennie or Alyson or any kind of certified mental health professional, I've been through a lot of therapy myself. But that doesn't mean that our advice is that of a doctor, and especially not of your doctor. Okay, so as we get through this episode, we're going to talk about things that you may find to be great strategies for you. And Sarah is going to help us approach it from that coaching perspective. But if you think you might need more help, please call your doctor. So Sarah, thanks for being here with us today. I'm really excited to get into this topic of the difference between therapy and coaching.

Sarah Madras 2:02
Well, thank you guys for having me. I'm excited to dive into the topic. It's the whole reason why transition from doing licensed mental health therapy into coaching. And so I love to share and help people understand what the differences are, and how both are beneficial.

Alyson Lex 2:18
I think what you just said there that both are beneficial, is really important to realize I am a big proponent of therapy, but I also get a lot of coaching. Do you have data that supports that whole link between quote unquote, working on myself and increase business success? Yes.

Sarah Madras 2:36
So it is actually the number one factor? What sets people apart for success, right? So the number one factor of starting and growing your business is people skills. And so all that personal development, all of that is people skills. It's so learning things like communication, and empathy and compassion, and validation, things like that. All of that is helping you not just internally but in your interaction with your customers. One of the things I say all the time is you're not having business problems, you're having personal problems that are showing up in your business. And so it's not a maybe it's a must have, like entrepreneurship is personal development on steroids.

Jennie Wright 3:21
Yeah, I'm still reeling from the you're not having business problems, you're having personal problems that are showing up in your business. That is literally the first four years of my business. And the first four years of chaos slash, not being able to scale slash, not being able to get returned clients, etc, etc, etc. And when I started working on myself, my own stuff, my own head trashes Allison and I call it my own personal poopy poop. That's when things started to get better. And I just want to say that we met Sarah on a completely different thing. We met Sarah and I've like the coolest podcast like girls who do stuff podcast with Jenny eventually, right? And it was a totally different thing. Like it's a totally different topic. But talking to Sarah about this, it's really cool side. And I actually want to ask this follow up question of, you're probably going to answer it in like 10 seconds flat, because it is a simple one. But why do you think it's so important that we do that work on ourselves? How is it so important? What's the benefit? Like on a deeper, deeper level?

Sarah Madras 4:22
So let me give you because I'm, like, I geek out about science and everything that I talk about. I'm like, no, it's science base. We have hard numbers. I'm not just like on my soapbox preaching like it is hard numbers. And so 72% of business owners report mental health concerns 72% and it's because being an entrepreneur exemplifies those things, right? It taps into our deepest insecurities, the things we're most worried about financial insecurities like it heightens everything. 13% report a loss of focus. Well that comes from the overwhelm the overwhelm Um, especially like you were saying, Jennie in those first four years of trying to do everything on your own in the beginning, it's a one person show, a lot of times when entrepreneurs are starting from the ground up, so that 13%, I was like, Are we sure that number is a little too low, let's see, that number needs to be a little higher,

Alyson Lex 5:20
he's a prompt, count, oh, I can probably count for like four or five of those percent, like, let's just add on four or 5%, just for me, and we'll call it even, totally.

Sarah Madras 5:29
And then 9% of and this is like we're talking successful business owners, we're not even talking in the beginning, 9%, report burnout. And that's directly related to the no boundaries, to having all of that pressure for finances. for longevity, like, this is how I'm feeding my family. That internal, not just like the external financial debt internal of this is my calling, this is who I meant to be, and I want it so badly. And so then I put the pedal to the metal and burn myself out, because I haven't learned those boundaries. And so that is why coaching is so beneficial, right? coaching in mental health, so beneficial, because just like anything, you have to find the right person, first and foremost, you have to find the right match. Just like there's some coaches out there who aren't the right match, or maybe don't have the level of training and experience, you know, there's therapists out there who may not be the right match and may not have the same level skills, right. And so it's really finding that person, and then getting equipped with those skills to be able to have the boundaries to prevent the burnout, to be able to have the mindset skills, to instead of getting stuck in overwhelm and be like, Oh my god, I suck, I can't get anything done. And then you shame spiral down into complete loss of focus and no motivation, like understanding what are the five themes of motivation? And what is the antidote for those, all of that is stuff that you get in that coaching and personal development space. And then you asked, Why is it so important? And what are the benefits, it's so important, because we are emotional beings, try as we might, with all of our technological advances, to make ourselves into these, like little advanced robotics, you know, where we're like, no, I get to, I am not I can compartmentalize. It's not true. We're emotional beings. It's false, just like embrace it, accept it, like, we have emotions. And we're interacting with fellow emotional beings, that is part of business, everything that we do is interacting. When you're a business owner, you're not doing business with a machine, you're doing business with people, it is people who are buying your product, people who are buying your services. And so it's two emotional beings interacting in a messy world. That's why it's so important to have that inner work and those personal development and working on you as the

Alyson Lex 7:58
person, all I can say is, I feel very see, as a business owner. As someone you know, Jenny and I were just taking in our notes document. And Jenny said, she's basically saying everything that we've gone through, because Jenny and I both have been very focused in different ways on our own personal development and growth. And recognizing everything that we've gone through in the the work that we've had to do on ourselves to even have a hope of being successful, right? So other than hiring a coach or going to therapy, or, in my case, both, what are some things that we can work on ourselves to help get us going in the right direction.

Sarah Madras 8:42
Okay, so other than going to a therapist, other than working with a coach, there's things like, you know, reading self help books, listening to amazing podcasts like this where, you know, personal development, podcast, even things to me, I say, it always starts. So the first stage of change is awareness. So just increasing your level of awareness of how often Am I having these thoughts that are making or taking me down into overwhelm that are making me feel like I'm losing focus and losing motivation? So step one is always increase your level of awareness. How often Am I thinking these things? How often am I sitting there going, Oh, well, I have to do the laundry before I can send that important email. And oh, now the laundry is done. But I'm going to answer this email. And so that important email to know Oh, wait, the reason I'm delaying that is because I'm scared that it's not going to be perfect, that my response to them isn't going to be perfect, or I'm scared of being visible, and I don't want to put myself out there to send that email to ask that person if they want to work with me or if they want to buy my product or whatever. So we do all these things. And so if we're not aware that that's what's going on. We don't even know What's happening? And how can we change something that we don't even know is happening. So I would say awareness. And then the next thing I would say, is to have an accountability, buddy. So what I mean by that is somebody that you trust that you can receive and accept influence from. So one of the things I say to people is because this is who I am, right, it's not just what I do is is who I am. And so I'm constantly when people are talking, I'll see something of like, oh, there's a limiting belief, or Oh, maybe if they just, if I gave them this piece of information, that would be a breakthrough for them. But when you're sitting at a Mexican restaurant at a birthday party having drinks, not everybody wants to like here, or there break through it. So what I'll say is, Hey, are you open to receiving influence on that right now? And I'm basically asking them for permission? And if they say, yes, then I'll say what it is that I noticed about what they said, and do that. Having that person in your life, that when they see you are doing the laundry and unloading the dishwasher, instead of sending the email, or when they hear you saying things like, I should be doing this, or, Oh, I didn't send that email out, because I was just so busy with all these other things, they can lovingly say to you, Hey, are you in a place to accept influence on this right now? And if you say yes, then they could be like, I noticed that you did five other things. Instead of sending that email, do you think you're nervous and avoiding sending that email? What do you think's going on there, and just bring that level, that awareness book where you to front and center for you in such a loving, nurturing way,

Alyson Lex 11:45
Jenny and I while you were talking, we're looking at each other for cameras, because that is what we do. In fact, I will assign her post it notes, be like, Hey, I saw this quote that I thought was really good. I'm reading a post it note, and I think you should, too. And I make her show them to me, so that we know that the others doing it.

Sarah Madras 12:08
So we have things that we work on. But the one thing I want to really talk about, especially with that first step, is the expectation that we're going to get it right the first time, like you may catch yourself doing it, the putting off the email thing, you might catch yourself doing it once out of 10 times at first. Exactly, then you'll catch yourself doing it two out of 10 times. And eventually you'll catch yourself nine out of 10 times I don't know anybody who catches themselves 10 out of 10 times. Exactly. It's a process, right. And that's the thing that I love, right is that I'm like, y'all, let's just be real. Like As humans, we had to learn everything. And this is a skill just like anything else that can be learned and can be practice, like so us thinking we should have already known these things and have been born this way that that's just unrealistic. We had to learn how to nurse for goodness sakes, we had to in the womb, we have to learn how to swallow. You know, like we had to learn how to walk, we had to learn how to talk. So why on earth would this be any different? Of course, you have to learn these skills of personal development, right? Just like you learn business strategy and business skills and marketing and everything is learned. That is what our journey has here on this earth is is to learn and evolve. And so really having that adjusted mindset on that's an unrealistic expectation. Why am I holding myself to that? This is something new. Like if I'm learning to speak Spanish for the first time, I'm not going to turn on the Spanish soap opera and be like, Oh my god, I can't believe I don't understand what they're saying, you know, this is just pointless. I give up I should like, I mean, are you kidding me? I'm gonna have to like watch the Spanish soap opera and learn Spanish for six months before I can probably understand how what they're saying on the show. The same is true personal development. It's a skill, like anything else. And so it's just like you said, I knew nothing. When I started. Now, I noticed that I did it one time, then I noticed that I did it three times and you build it and strengthen that skill set just like any other skill set.

Jennie Wright 14:15
Oh, we have so much. So much. Okay. First, I have a question that well, I don't know if it's me. But I have found that working with entrepreneurs, I have found that working with people who are trying to build businesses or side hustles and things like that, that there are more of us in this entrepreneurial space that are coming in with a form of trauma when it comes in to the whole personal development, interaction with others and things like that. That's how I know I got into this. And I've heard other very similar stories do you find it the percentage of people who are coming into the entrepreneurial space, especially the online entrepreneurial space? Do you find a lot more of them tend to mirror that or Is that something that you don't see,

Sarah Madras 15:02
what I'll say is that trauma is a universal experience. So seeing it in the online world, or in the entrepreneur world is just because in order to do the entrepreneur world, you have to do the trauma work, or the business is gonna fail. Like, that's just point blank, bottom line period. And right, you have to do that personal work, that trauma work. So universally, every single person in this world has some kind of trauma, that trauma becomes like we get a spotlight on our traumas, when we decide to become entrepreneurs. And so that's why you're saying, Oh, well, I see it's so much more here than I would say, in my corporate job. Because in your corporate job, you come in you do what you got to do you leave is a completely different ballgame when everything is within your responsibility, right? And so that commitment and conviction that you have towards entrepreneurship is so strong that you're like, well, I'm willing to do the trauma work, I'm willing to talk about the trauma work, because my conviction, and my why for this business is so strong,

Alyson Lex 16:16
I can absolutely see where you're coming from with that, because I do find that my entrepreneur friends were more into the personal dev space than my non entrepreneur friends. And it's, it's a really, like what you said about, you've got to do the work, or you're gonna fail. And that's, it sounds pretty harsh, right? But it's tough love.

Sarah Madras 16:39
It's just truth, right? Like, I'm very much a truth teller, I'm not gonna blow smoke and like, set you up for failure, I would rather set you up for success by being truthful. And being like, this is part of the process. Like when I was telling you, ladies, before we hit record that I'm on a board where we help entrepreneurs locally launch their business, one of the questions that I asked every single person is, what is your relationship with personal development? What are your thoughts on it? Because if they're saying, Oh, you know, I'm anti and I know everything, and I don't need to learn or develop my life is roses and sunshine and perfect, and they are resistant to that, then I already know that that is going to be a barrier for them. And they're not going to be as successful. And the applicants who are like, Yes, I want to learn more. And I want to learn about myself and I like that have that basic level of receptiveness and openness to it. That's what I'm like, plus, like, you're going to be set for success.

Alyson Lex 17:40
At the beginning of the episode, we talked about it a little bit about the fact that we're going to talk about the difference between coaching and therapy, and I want to kind of pull into that a little bit. I happen to love my therapist. She feels coachee to me sometimes, right? Yeah, yeah. And so I'm getting a little bit of the best of both worlds with her. But what's the difference? And is there specific times when we should be calling in a coach versus a therapist, or vice versa?

Sarah Madras 18:07
So my background is as a licensed mental health social worker, I was a licensed therapist for almost two decades, okay. And the reason that I shifted, I know right now Jedi,

Jennie Wright 18:19
how how you look like you're 20? How

Sarah Madras 18:22
it's because of the zoom makeup effects that they have, but

Jennie Wright 18:28
I'm like two decades lit, you were 12. How is this possible?

Sarah Madras 18:32
In the box of dye that hides migraines, like that's it so living in that space, the reason that I transition from mental health counseling, to coaching, and how the two things are different one, mental health counseling, think of it this way, you're going to do a lot of past stuff. And my style as a therapist was always very different. A lot of people think therapy is you sit on a chair, and you talk like that's talk therapy. My style is very action oriented, you're going to be skill building. And so that very much is in alignment with the coaching model. coaching model is forward facing solutions. You're building skills, things like that. So solution focus therapy, is let's look at the past. Let's move through those traumas, let's build your skills. But not all therapists are like that. Some therapists are really much like talk therapy. But think of it that way. Therapy is more past and dealing with childhood traumas, family dynamics, things like that. And it's also you have your 15 minute little session, and it's very regulated by insurance departments, we are required to put a mental health diagnosis no matter even if it's the smallest, littlest one of adjustment disorder, we have to do that, in order for the clients to utilize their insurance benefits. And so one therapy uses insurance benefits, it's regulated, which can be a great thing we're required to get see us, we have to up our licensure every two years, we have to do all these things. So there's a safety there, right? in coaching, the reason I shifted is because there's so much more flexibility. Yes, now I, the reason it took me so long is because it was really hard for me to be like, well, now I can't accept insurance. And like, I knew that that was going to be hard for a lot of people, right? Because it goes from a copay, tipping out of pocket. So that's why it took me two years to make that shift. But when you shift into coaching, it's a lot of times future focused, it can be like, I can have a two hour block with a client, rather than being like, oh, Ding Dong, I know, you're right in the middle of breakthrough, but sorry, insurance tells us you got to go. And so it really is that flexibility to show up with what the client needs, where they're at, and really provide it at such a higher level and so much more customizable. So let me preface this because I want to be totally honest, and like buyer beware on anything, the coaching industry is not regulated, right. And so there are coaching degrees that you can get online, like a certificate, not a degree, let me rephrase that and use proper language, that literally you can sign up for an online eight hour course. And it's like, now you've had your coaching certificate. And so you might have coaches out there, who are with the best of intentions, wanting to help. But the reason they want to help is because they're working through their own traumas, and working those own traumas out while they're trying to help other people. And so that's one of the like, pros cons of like, what's happening here. And so I feel like, what differentiates me from other coaches is the fact that I am in both worlds. And so I don't have to say, like a coach would say, hey, that's trauma stuff. And I'm not allowed to go back in there. Like, I'm not allowed, I'm not certified to do that. There's those boundaries there that you can't, and the coaching will do that we have to be forward focus, I can give you skills for this. And so I don't have those kind of restrictions on me, because I have I'm like, basically like dual certified, so to speak, you know what I mean? So I can walk both worlds. But that would be the difference between the two. And like, what I would love people to know, because it hurts my heart when people tell me some of their experiences both with not the best therapist, and not the best coaches, because it prevents them from getting the transformation that they're seeking and the relief and the benefits. And so

Jennie Wright 22:51
yeah, yeah, I think we've all got the worst race. I've certainly had one, especially from an emergency department at a local hospital that I went into for a health concern, and they tried to put me on a 24 hour hold thinking I had anorexia. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, he was, uh, he wasn't even listening to my problems. He just, he heard I lost. At the time, I had lost about 100 pounds, all well, and all healthy. And all you heard was I lost 100 pounds. And he was like, Well, I think we're going to be looking at a 24 hours old and I literally grabbed my purse and ran. Yes, I was like, I don't have like you didn't even listen to my balance. But that's totally it's a totally different topic for totally different day. And it's from like, literally 20 years ago. So I've done my trauma we're coming out with right. But yeah, Holy moly. Okay. So when we're trying to go through our days, we're hit with different things. And our mental health can take a dip, and it can really impact our success. Allison and I both know that when something affects us or happens to us, either personal or business, it can occasionally really derail the day, the calls that day, the work we want to do our ability to be good partners, parents, all those things that can really have an impact. So what's your best advice to get through a day and keeping our mental health at a good level and keeping our success on track?

Sarah Madras 24:11
Okay, so the number one tip that I would say is to be mindful of the stories you tell yourself, okay, as humans, our brains are hardwired for story. The second we see something, the second, something happens, our brain automatically creates a story. And it doesn't care if the story is based on truth, or is based on imagination. And again, this is supported by science where they literally have the brain scans up there. And when you're actually playing a piano, it lights up and then when you imagine yourself playing the piano, it lights up in the exact same place. And so our brain cannot decipher between real and imaginary. And so it can be something as simple like you said like one call with a client And it completely derails your whole rest of the day, right? Where you go in. And let's say that you're doing door knocking, and you go into one business and introduce yourself, and then it throws off your whole day because the reaction you got, it's because of the story that you created. And so if I go into a business, and I write or, you know, pick up the phone, and I call a business, and I'm like, I would love to bring my workshop into your team, and they're like, oh, sorry, we don't have time for that right now. Our budget is totally spent. Thanks, have a nice day, I get off the phone. And the first story is like, Oh my god, I just totally put myself out there. This is never gonna work. That's like the fourth know that I've gotten. Why do I even bother? I care more about people and their businesses than they do about themselves. Like I can create that story that then is going to spiral me down. Because it starts the story, our stories then birth and belief are beliefs then birth or thoughts or thoughts, then birth or feelings or feelings, then birth our actions, and then our actions, birth our results. That same exact experience. I'm not changing the experience at all. But if I catch myself in that story, and I'm like, wait a minute, that story is based on my imagination. Yes, they did say no. But that doesn't mean that they don't care about their business, maybe they really do have already utilized their budget and they I'll just reach out to them next year. And that story makes me feel empowered, makes me feel hopeful. And then down the funnel, I go it's the same exact funnel, it's just one zaps me and puts me in suffering and one empowers me and puts me in this freedom state where I can be creative and innovative and still motivated right? And so what I tell people is like Think of it like clothes are you going to put a pair of jeans on that makes you feel like you got the muffin top floating over there so tight you got to lay down and stuck in an order button them up. You can barely breathe and you're miserable all day. And you feel like you're like that overstuffed sausage like you're gonna walk around all day feeling like that? Or do you want to put on the pair of jeans that you're like my Butler's good and knees and I'm will walk around feeling all sassy and hot today. Try on your stories, just like you would try on a pair of jeans. And I'm like, Yo, I tried on this story and it is not serving me well. So I'm gonna try on a different story that makes me feel hot and sassy. And like I can own the day. So that would be my top like number one thing is to just check your stories and try on your stories like you would try on jeans and only put on the ones that make you feel absolutely amazing.

Jennie Wright 27:46
I want sassy jeans. Yeah, stories. I mean stories.

Alyson Lex 27:51
I have a pair of sassy jeans. I want my stories to make me feel as good as those jeans do. There you go. That's exactly it. Sarah, I can't thank you enough for being here with us and giving us so much information. where can our audience find out more about

Sarah Madras 28:05
you? Yes. So I would love for them to join my free Facebook community called brave leaders dare to lead they can also find me anywhere on social media Sarah Madras coaching and also Sarah Madras calm.

Jennie Wright 28:20
Okay, that's super simple. And fantastically said, Okay, I got so caught up in what you were saying today because it was so relevant. And it was incredibly helpful and I'm I'm literally not doing the blow your smoke thing. I'm being serious. That because it's true, darn it, that I completely was zoning into what you're saying and zoning out of the fact that we were supposed to be doing some takeaways. Allison actually got on it. She's like we need to do takeaways. So she's written the best takeaways, and I really appreciate it. Okay, here's the first one. I'm going to pretend I wrote it. I didn't. As humans. I love this takeaway. Actually, as humans, our brains are hardwired for story. And it doesn't care if the story is based on truth or our imagination. That was incredible. I had no idea but it makes sense. The moment you said it, let me see a lot of sense on the way that some people really turn things I had totally get it.

Sarah Madras 29:08
I really liked the just the quote, you've got to do the work, or you're going to fail. No, I called it out when you set it. I'm calling it out again. It makes it as Jennie likes to say it makes it a non negotiable. If you want success, you've got to do this because otherwise, it's uphill and you're going to slide back down to the bottom anyway. Yep, you got to do the inner work if you want to be successful. Yeah. And people are so focused on the outer work. They're so focused on tactics of like logo and all those things and I'm like you got to do the inner work.

Jennie Wright 29:41
The traumatized inner child is being seen and then is getting some help and I'm really grateful because I was focusing all on the tactical stuff all on the you know, live live live live stuff. And if you're not taking care of all the other poopy poop that's in there, it's all going to bubble to the surface. That was a really bad thing that I just created an My head does have died visual just don't go there. But it's my effects takeaway is therapy is more about handling the past and coaching is about developing those skills for the future. And what I liked about Sarah is that she gets to straddle both worlds that makes her a very incredible resource for people, especially entrepreneurs.

Alyson Lex 30:19
I mentioned that I love my therapist and that's what I love about her is we work on why I'm feeling a certain way and then she tells me what she wants me to do next. So I've got drawings I've got diagrams, I've got assignments that is I'm not never letting her go I will follow her everywhere it's

Sarah Madras 30:38
it's the sign of a great therapist so don't you dare let her go

Alyson Lex 30:41
No. And you know what to your point about not everybody is a fit for everybody it took me a whole lot of them to find her. I was really intent on getting this help and it's in line with some medications so it makes sense that it's in a regulatory way and he was really intent on getting this so I kept with it. And so that could be like a takeaway to be Yeah, I really liked what you said about stories leading to beliefs leading to thoughts leading to feelings, actions results, I thought that was a really cool way to see because I've always heard like the stories you tell yourself will affect the results that you have but I never got what was in between. and you kind of threw that that one away there at the end of this episode. I felt like I could have talked about that the whole time.

Sarah Madras 31:30
Oh yes. Oh My Girl That's one of my signature training. Yes, we can do Oh, we can do all over call with you.

Alyson Lex 31:38
And I don't know if you have a recording or where somebody can buy one recording of that signature training but I think it might be a really great resource to go to Sara's website and check it out. See if you can find some more info on that. Because that can be a game changer. Allison, I do have the recording but I never thought of that. Are you got my ring thing I do oh my gosh, girl, throw that on your website for like, Look, this is what Jenny and I do product page on your website, make a funnel, make a product, throw together a workbook, you got a $47 product that I would buy in a heartbeat because we always hear the beginning in the end. But now you've put together that middle and shown us how it works so we can begin to break down where in the process we are struggling

Sarah Madras 32:21
Exactly. Oh now you've got my brain going look

Jennie Wright 32:24
to practically just wrote your sales page just FYI. She did I was like,

Alyson Lex 32:28
are you giving we're recording. When we release this, you'll get the episode there, you get your sales copy,

Jennie Wright 32:35
sales copywriter for a reason. If you need a funnel built,

Sarah Madras 32:39
come find me I know who to go to.

Jennie Wright 32:40
This has been fun and light and enjoyable on a topic that can sometimes feel heavy and weighted down and worrisome. Really, really great way to approach this topic. Really interesting sort of take on how we can look at our self improvement, our trauma work, our entrepreneurship, or dealing with all the messy bits and stuff. My favorite phrase now poopy poop, don't ask me where that came from no clue made it up on the go. And the fact that we have all this head trash, and I constantly feel like entrepreneurs carry a very heavy load. Because I think we're thrown in. And we have to deal with it so much more than so many other people. I think within the traditional job market, the traditional job space, we don't have to deal with this as much because we have different things. And that's not to say that people don't, because I certainly did, I certainly struggled in those areas, which is why I'm an entrepreneur. But I didn't have to figure I didn't have to have as much of a load. So I really think that it's incredibly important that people look at this work. And you know, success isn't linked to the work that we do on ourselves unless we have a business. So there's that weight of making sure that we're successful. And that's what we're looking at. So just wanna take a second again, say thank you so much, sir. Really appreciate all your time being here. Thanks for doing this. It was amazing.

Sarah Madras 33:59
Thank you ladies for having me. I had an absolute blast. And you guys are so much fun to talk to. So I really do it.

Jennie Wright 34:05
Awesome. Thank you. Make sure that you check out Sarah on all of her areas where you can connect with her that will all be on our show notes. Go to System to to find those as well as listen to the podcast wherever you're listening to your favorite podcast. Consider liking following sharing, getting in touch with us all those good things. You can do all of that from System to as well. And we'll be back again soon answering another big question. Thanks again for watching or listening to this podcast. We hope we've answered some of your big questions today. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast anywhere you're listening and leave us a review.

Alyson Lex 34:40
We publish multiple episodes per week, all designed to help you grow your business. Look for us online on Facebook and Instagram at System to THRIVE are home on the web at System to



Episode 164 – Real Talk About Numbers, Scale, and What It’s REALLY Like To Grow a Business with Tara Newman

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