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Do you know how to review campaigns, initiatives or launches that you’ve recently completed? Do you know what questions to ask yourself about how to improve your results, understand what works vs. what doesn’t, and what to try to improve next time?

Our guest this episode, Jason Wiehler, will have an open conversation with us about the types of things to consider during your “launch post-mortem” and how you can use real results to continually improve.

Resources

Jason’s Website
Find Jason on Instagram
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Check out Jason’s podcast

Jason’s Previous Episodes
Episode 109 – Does it REALLY all work?! with Jason Wiehler
Episode 4b – How a Smaller Audience Means Bigger Results with Niche Expert Jason Wiehler

Check out the entire library of business 101 episodes here.

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:03
So you've finished your campaign, your promotion, your launch your thing? How did it go? Do you have any idea how to figure out how it went? Or do you just go by a gut feeling? We wanted to kind of explore what it looks like to do that post mortem of the thing that you've just done. And so we've asked a really good friend, Jason Wheeler, to come on with us and have a conversation about using results and data in your marketing, but not in that boring clinical way. It's all about drawing the right conclusions, so you know what to do next. So Jason, thanks for being with us.

Jason Wiehler 0:46
Thanks for having me again, for the third time. Do I get a jacket?

Alyson Lex 0:50
Well, we could maybe, yeah, maybe a jersey. I don't know-how

Jason Wiehler 0:55
to sing on SNL. When you get to five to get the blazer with the number five on it. I have a feeling I'm getting there.

Alyson Lex 1:03
Well, you know, um, maybe we'll just have to wait until number five comes around. Because we're, we're not SNL. Not yet. No. It's Monday afternoon. It's Monday afternoon live.

Jennie Wright 1:20
Yeah, it's Monday afternoon. Okay, so what I would love for you to share a little bit is, you know, we've been on here before, but you have a very distinct perspective when it comes to marketing. And that comes from a whole background. What What can you pull from in your history, that helps you identify how to follow through from a launch or current trends or that post mortem?

Alyson Lex 1:49
Where do you pull it from?

Jason Wiehler 1:52
I would have to say, the best place I can pull it from from my past is when I was a marketing manager, for Corporation, retail, large wholesale Corporation. And the reason I would say it's relevant there is because you would have your results measured by day by week by period by quarter by year. And when you go to actually plan out your next year, you're going to look at all of that, you're going to look at it, you're going to look at what happened, when it happened, how you made it happen, what worked and what didn't work, and then you have to plan out the whole next year based off of that. And when a corporation asked one of their managers to plan something like that, they're not just asking you to throw out numbers that make them feel good about the plan, they actually want a plan that is almost certainly going to work practically a bulletproof plan.

Alyson Lex 2:48
So, so yeah.

Jason Wiehler 2:54
Go ahead. No,

Alyson Lex 2:56
now I'm just gonna say how do you get from? This is what happened. Right? Like, how do you figure out this particular piece worked, but this didn't. Alright, so I know that every market, let's just say it's a, you know, a holiday marketing campaign, Black Friday, Black Friday campaign. This particular piece of this campaign worked, this particular piece didn't? How do you really differentiate what worked versus what didn't? When everything kind of all works together?

Jason Wiehler 3:33
Well, the one thing that you would have to look at is, there are two different resources that you actually use up when you actually go to do marketing, you can use your time, or you can use your money, then when you're looking at the result, the result is usually the money. Right? So when you compare, you have to put a value to your time, you already know the value of money. There is always a number which you either have in mind, or which makes sense, which makes you feel like you're moving forward or succeeding or creating enough margin or profit, that will indicate to you that you've actually succeeded, right? Some people will say, if I get 10% margin on all the effort that I do, then I'm good. I made a profit and I can just, you know, ramp that up. And then that 10% will represent a large number. And then there's other people that will say, unless I'm making 60, or 70% margin, it's not worth my time. So it's dependent on what what you're actually asking for, or what you're going for. But, you know, with any business, there's always a great of like a breakeven point. And some people at the end of whatever they've done, they don't reach that breakeven point and they know at that particular moment, okay, I've invested too much time I invested too much money and this is what I got in return. I do not want to repeat this process. It's either going to burn me up, energy wise, or I'm going to run out of money or my runway is going to get a whole lot shorter, I'm going to go into business.

Alyson Lex 5:11
There's, there's the sunk cost fallacy, which I'm actually really aware of, in my own personal life. Because I am really, really good at doing this. Well, I've already come this far, or I've already done this much, I've already spent this much money. I've already invested this much time, I've put so much of me into this. I can't give up now. And I think it's really tough for people to find that point where you're talking about like, this is, this is my stopping point. This is my breaking point. Is that something that you really need to define before you start? In order to keep just right, like, we've all seen that picture of the gold miners, and the one guy gives up? Um, but he's like, one more mining pick, hit away from the gold? I have no idea. But he has no idea what I'm talking about, I'm gonna find

Jason Wiehler 6:12
out. The thing is, is that I mean, I

Jennie Wright 6:14
get the right wins, but

Jason Wiehler 6:15
I don't, I don't like looking at it from a sunk cost kind of thing. Like, unacceptable, right off. Like what you're saying, I still use the, I still put it into the phrase of how much runway, when you go to do something with your marketing. If you're going to run out of runway, doesn't matter what you're sinking. Like, once the runway is over, the plane is going to crash. Like I mean, that's it. That's why they that's why they use that analogy. It's once it's over, it's over, you've run out of space, there's no other, there's no other move there. Right. So you have to make that judgment going forward. How much am I willing to to spend? How much am I? How much effort Am I willing to put into it? And you practically should decide that at a time, right? Because that might be one of the best indicators of whether this thing succeeded or not. If you end up running a marketing campaign, or doing something to grow your business, and you have money left over at the end of the day, and you've made a profit, great. But if you run that campaign, and you just keep on running it and running it until you finally have no resources left, You've obviously done quite a few things wrong.

Jennie Wright 7:31
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Jason Wiehler 7:34
Like sunk costs, I mean, I can hide sunk costs as far as working out. But I wouldn't associate sunk costs with marketing budgets. That's too scary for me.

Jennie Wright 7:44
So while you were talking, Alison sent me the picture that she's talking about. Right? So it shows two different miners on two different levels of a tunnel and one is like an inch away from hitting those diamonds like just an inch away from his goal. And the other one is just like voraciously mining towards it, and you'll get there. So one guy has given up right before he hits the goal. And then one guy is like, absolutely headed for it. What I what I get from this, what I understand from Allison sharing this is, you know, you were saying, Keep you know, if you keep going till your resources are gone, and your runway is Oh, yeah, you're gonna fail. is the right thing to do. You said to plan ahead. But can you add that flexibility that if while you're doing your lunch, you can reevaluate during because what if your preconceived data points that you wanted to reach your milestones mean that you end up one inch from the goal?

Jason Wiehler 8:42
Okay, this is interesting. Now, to use your pitcher analogy, if there is an entrepreneur that is starting up, they will probably have a low monetary resource. But they will have a heavy time resource. They probably like the miner, if it's not costing the miner, anything to keep on picking away. And they can keep going, they're going to keep going because they're they have a huge resource of time, they'll just keep on going. Right? With marketing and stuff like that, if you are, if you're in the beginning, you know, you might not do a lot of ad spend, but you might just keep on plugging away at like a social media strategy or a promotional strategy, because you have the time to do it. When you get later on in business. And you might have a burn rate or a certain amount of income that you have to have coming in. All of a sudden that starts not only affecting how much money you have to spend, but it also affects how much time you have in order to make a profit. So you run a campaign and you say, at the end of this quarter, I want to hit this sales goal. Right. You start down that road and you're You following your spend, like right to the penny, but halfway through it, you're not reaching any of your benchmarks. And if you keep on going by the end of that quarter, you're going to come in like, Well, under your burn will have outrun your profit. And you will find yourself in a bad situation. That's when you know, you have to like, you have to cut and run, you have to do something. Right? It's probably better to stop than to continue. It is absolutely, it's better to do something else than to continue doing what you're doing. Because you know, what you're doing is is not working.

Jennie Wright 10:38
So go ahead. Awesome. Yeah, we're like both.

Alyson Lex 10:41
Like, we're both, I think, probably in the same place. So what you're saying is like, before you start, let's set some, you said benchmarks, let's set some parameters for what we expect to happen. Not necessarily by the end of this, but even partway through. So it's not even like a post mortem, like I mentioned, when we first started talking, but what about a third mortem, an ante mortem? I don't even know what technical term, it's right, it's like that. We're gonna check the progress of this, if I see. And just to put it in non corporate retail terms, right, if I see that doing a daily Instagram Live is not getting me, the signups to my summit that I want. Maybe I'm gonna go ahead and stop that, or scale that back and focus my time and effort somewhere else that I think will have better results, because I'm measuring it. Yes.

Jason Wiehler 11:42
And there's a whole bunch of things that can affect it. Like, I mean, if you're doing an ad campaign, and it's not working, maybe something in the ad May and campaign needs to change, something needs to be tweaked, or it just isn't the right strategy or tactic.

Jennie Wright 11:57
What I like, and I do this, when I'm doing summits with clients is we have that, you know, there's usually like a three and a half week promo period. And I always tell clients don't look at your numbers for the first couple of days. Because the first couple of days, there's not enough data to make decisions. But in the first couple of days, inevitably, I don't know, six out of 10 clients will be like, Oh, the page isn't converting or this isn't happening, we got to change that. So we got to change that. And they want to change, you know, a whole bunch of things. And I'm like, Hold on this, this needs to bake a little bit, we need to let it sit for a bit. We need traffic to go to it. You can't make decisions on a summit funnel, landing page VIP package, etc. Based on 35 people come into your page, if you get 350 Sure we can start looking at traffic 1000 Absolutely right, we can start making decisions. But if 35 People come to the page, and your opt in rate isn't stellar, it's not enough traffic, it's, it's not enough to look at it. And I think that is something that people really need to think about is how their traffic also impacts their thing. So if you if you tell your best friend and your sister in law and your brother that you're doing a webinar, and all of them go look at your page, but none of them convert, does that mean your webinar funnel is not converting? Well, no, you've sent the wrong traffic to it. People need to think about that.

Jason Wiehler 13:25
Well, not every single marketing strategy, or approach has the instantaneous gravitational pull. What's gonna end up happening is you you have to wait for your audience to, for lack of a better term, go into orbit, before you're even going to be able to pull them in. So it's going to take time to to measure anything in the first 48 hours or even the first week might not even be appropriate. Two weeks, might give you a hint at where you're going.

Jennie Wright 13:59
Well, that's why we that's why we try and like Alison and I do this with our clients all the time. We try and encourage an elongated promo period. And people freak out. They're like, What do you mean, I'm going to promote a webinar for 12 days? Right? But it's because of the traffic? It's, it's because people need to not only one does the traffic need to start seeing it. And you all three of us know that. Even if you put something on your social media five, six or seven times most likely, the same person isn't seeing it five or six, seven times they've only seen it once. So you constantly have to keep trying to position yourself in front of your ideal client with our traffic. So we're going a little off topic and stuff like that. But well, yeah, it's

Jason Wiehler 14:40
a good conversation because like even the biggest, even the biggest online advertising giants, even if you put an ad in through Google or through Facebook, it isn't optimized within the first 48 hours. They're still optimizing it to work better. So to think that anything we do is even faster than that is just crazy, right?

Jennie Wright 15:03
But people, you know, and this is a good conversation to have, because a lot of people have these incredibly like these insane expectations. So as an example, it's those expectations of, hey, we're launching a brand new product, by the way, we have no social media following, we have no email list, but we expect to get 150 people to join our ABC XYZ.

Alyson Lex 15:26
As soon as we promote it.

Jason Wiehler 15:29
You know, the funny thing is, is that you might coach clients along and try to get them to succeed and everything like that. But I think the one, the one chapter that we can't bring up, and then we can say, this is a discussion we honestly have is, we're going to teach you how to have expectations. We're going to teach you what real expectations are in this particular type of business, so that you don't throw yourself down a rabbit hole that you created for yourself that is completely detached from the reality of how this business works.

Alyson Lex 16:02
Well, and I think what happens is, so many people here, make money sitting on the beach, or, I mean, I've seen ads recently for this launch, of course, even if you have no experience, make five figures in a week with a brand new course. Right? And it's socks, it's so

Jennie Wright 16:23
good baby,

Alyson Lex 16:24
we're sold this, you know, people are sold on this idea of, of these unrealistic expectations. And you said you can either spend time or spend money. Jenny and I are fans of saying you can pay for it or work for it. Either one, it's the same thing. And I think that people have these expectations that they, they can just hope for it. And one of the things that I've said for a long time is hope is not a solid business strategy. And I usually only pull that out when I get super snarky. Like this is not a solid business strategy. But one of the things and this is this is probably for both of you, because I'm always interested to hear what other people think. And that's when you're looking at why something did or didn't work. How do you know, how do you decide what to attribute that to? Right? You mentioned like, oh, maybe the ad creative wasn't on point or the algorithm or the the spend or right with your ad? How do you decide what to attribute that to? Well,

Jason Wiehler 17:47
the numbers never lie, first of all. And if you look at any promotion, let's say somebody is running a promotion for a summit. Jenny would know the most about this probably out of the three of us. There are numbers that will tell you probably with a lot of accuracy, exactly what went wrong. So for instance, if I said that a person got 200 people to show up for their webinar, or 200 people sign up for the webinar. And they had a 60% conversion rate on their page. And they were expecting 1000 people. What was the problem?

Alyson Lex 18:36
Yeah. Well, you're talking

Jason Wiehler 18:38
about you know the answer, right?

Alyson Lex 18:40
Well, yeah, the answer was version checkpoints. Right. You didn't

Jason Wiehler 18:43
You didn't get enough traffic to go to that page. There's your problem, because converting at 60%.

Jennie Wright 18:48
That's awesome. We'll take that all day long. do that

Jason Wiehler 18:53
all day run, send everybody to the page, right? The problem was, is that everybody didn't get sent to the page. And when they expected 1000. They didn't do everything they could to make sure that that 60% got them to the 1000.

Alyson Lex 19:09
Okay, right. So let's say I have 100 people on my webinar. I am expecting to get 10 sales. Right. I have looked at past webinars, and I have a 10% conversion rate. Average. Awesome. So I'm taking that information from history. moving it forward to here, creating a reasonable expectation which puts me ahead of the pack. I'm expecting to get 10 sales, I get three. Now. How do I decide what to attribute that difference to? Well,

Jason Wiehler 19:55
I'm gonna say something at the end of this that's gonna probably make you laugh and you'll probably agree with That's me. But the thing is, is that if you weren't selling the exact same product at the exact same time to the exact same type of people, then there is going to be a different outcome. And you're using a very, very small sample in order to pass judgment on your 3%. Right? Like, the thing is, is if 107 people show up to your webinar, and those next seven people are buyers, then you got 10 out of 110. I mean, 100 is a very small sample,

Alyson Lex 20:30
right? I know, I'm just I like to use 100, because it reduces math. Alright, so 1000 and 100. Buyers, I don't care is yours to the end of it, the thing is, is adding 10%, I get 3%. How do I know what to attribute that to?

Jason Wiehler 20:45
You would know how to attribute that to based off of you if you would have to get feedback, first of all, from the people that you're dealing with? I mean, what, what is the difference between what you're offering? And what you did before? Right, you'd have to look at, you'd have to look at it. Not so much from a linear perspective, it has to be more in depth as far as well, did I offer the same thing and I bumped my price up? Because that might do it? Did I offer something different that didn't carry the same amount of value that might do it? Was my product not niched into my audience that might do it was my previous one more niche, then all those things might do it. But the one thing that's funny is 3% 3% is still good. It's still way above what anybody actually should like, get in a situation like that. Right. 10% is an outrageously good number.

Jennie Wright 21:43
Yeah, well, we tend to try and go for a rageous. But I get I actually love what you just said, and this is exactly where we want to go with this is, you know, what's different. And you also have to factor in the human portion of this, right. So you have seen me do a bunch of webinars, and sometimes I'm on. And I'm good. And sometimes I'm not. And that has a real impact, too. And I think when we're setting ourselves up for these kinds of discussions, we have to include those types of metrics as well. They factor in, if I'm on my game, and I do a webinar, then I mean, good luck saying no, but I can off, then it's gonna be a challenge. And I've had those when we were trying to sell the challenge blueprint course, back in late 2019, early 2020, there were times where I was on my game, and then off my game, and we saw that I did over 50 Facebook Lives and all these types of things to try and create this. Those metrics, I think matter. But I love what you were saying about if the if it's the right niche, if it's the right people, if you're, you know, what's changes at the right traffic, all of those factors, and how do without being like nauseatingly boring about it? How do people look at that better? How do they look at it and go, Okay,

Alyson Lex 23:08
what's different?

Jennie Wright 23:10
And how do we track that kind of stuff?

Jason Wiehler 23:15
You know, if you're talking about what's good, and what's worse, like what's better, and what's worse compared to what what happened before? Right? Are you talking about? You're talking about one previous webinar going on to the next one? Right? I mean, to a certain extent, if you've been able to do it once, you should be able to learn from that and sort of duplicate the process to some extent, right. But there are so many factors that actually affect it. And that's why you need professional people to help you with it. Because you not only have to attract the right people, you have to bring them for the right reasons, you have to offer them the thing they need, and it has to be a value. There's a lot of different things that have to go right. So if you actually, before you even do the next thing, you have to look at what went right the previous time, and what went wrong. Okay. So you look at the 100 people that showed up, and maybe you've got some inside information as to who they are and what they're about what they do, what their needs, are. You close 10% of them. What was it about that 10%, right, because that will guide you as to who you promote to the next time, because you want to up the ante. Because you know, those are the people that buy those are the people that you want to focus in on. So now you want to go get more of those the next time around. Right? Your product at the same time, if it carried value, and everybody was happy, you know that you want to do the exact same thing the next time if not better. So you have to improve on all the things that you did. Well, and capitalize on that. learning experience and fix all the things that went wrong. Right?

Alyson Lex 25:05
Yeah, well, and so it's it's not just improving and fixing, but I feel like and maybe this is just a me problem. But there's also the experimentation, I call it playing. Jennie calls it, stop it, Alyson. Because I'll get these little hair ideas where I'm like, You know what, I'm going to try this and see how it works.

Jennie Wright 25:36
And so not against that as long as you have something to, to measure it against. If you and this is a cautionary tale, if you change six things on your funnel, with right without testing it, then you never know which one of those six things actually made the fricking difference? And I'm talking big things. I'm not talking little minor copy changes.

Alyson Lex 25:57
Oh, no. I mean, I've I have I remember playing with a friend who has, I mean, he spends like a million dollars a month in ad spend. So we have a good time, right? And we would tweak one word in the headline, because we're trying to get a half a percent improvement because that meant millions of dollars in profit, and all of that. So like it tweaks can be little but I also mean, like conceptually, so for my summit in June, I have decided to set it up. Kind of using standard, right. So standard summit thing, like set up is you have three days and three sets of experts. And they all talk on different stuff. And one expert on you know, each expert has a day that their stuff goes live. Mine is going to be shorter 10 minute videos from each expert every day. So all experts will be seen every it's right. It's a new thing. I'm trying. Jenny's not terribly on board, but she's I'm kind of just running over her on it. But what, you know, how much of that is too much?

Jason Wiehler 27:18
I got to play? Yeah. Okay. So this new summit idea, you use the keyword news. So you pretty much you know that your there's no history?

Alyson Lex 27:29
Right? Okay, so how much this format is the only thing that's different? Everything. So

Jason Wiehler 27:35
how much as a percentage in your mind? How much of it foundationally is there that you know, will work based off of past experience? And how much of a percentage of it is new that you don't know how it's going to work?

Alyson Lex 27:51
Oh, man, now you're asking me to like, Oh, I

Jennie Wright 27:53
love this question.

Alyson Lex 27:54
This is a very good CV, bring this stuff up.

Jennie Wright 27:58
And also because your summit was amazing, the last time and my in my head, I'm like, it ain't broke. Right. But I know that you always want to innovate and change. So I want you to answer this question. I'm dying to hear this answer. Well, I you know, and I may need to talk to you about this answer. Because,

Alyson Lex 28:17
like, if I look at everything else, the funnel, the promo, the experts selection, the topics, the niche, all of that is the same. It's literally, and actually, if we want to get even down into it, the amount of content from each expert is about the same

Jennie Wright 28:40
30 to 40 minutes, but you're changing growth experience,

Alyson Lex 28:44
but I'm changing the experience, which has a larger feel to it, but it's one piece, right? So that's a really hard number to quantify,

Jason Wiehler 28:55
okay, this experience that you're changing, have you run it by people and they got excited at the idea of this change? No. Have you? Is it something that when you go to promote this summit? Is it something that you're going to tell people and say, hey, just so you know, this sum is different? Because the format's different? Is that going to sell it.

Alyson Lex 29:18
So I am putting out the call for speakers and I have received positive feedback from this potential speakers on the format. Okay, well, um, it's not gonna be like, the super it's not going to be like the crux of the marketing, but it will be mentioned.

Jason Wiehler 29:42
Do you ever watch a show Silicon Valley? Very briefly, okay. There was an episode on there when they were when they were, were they beta testing their software? And they sent it out and they got really great feedback. And they're like, we're gonna go live because all the feedback was awesome. One other venture capitalist person that was a was an ally there said, this is all wrong. And he's like, why all our feedbacks? Awesome. He goes, who did you send the beta to? All the engineers? No. And you just asked all the speakers what they thought, people you're trying to sell to and attract. If somebody tells me instead of doing an hour long interview, I get to do a 15 minute interview. I'm gonna go, yay. More exposure. 45 minutes less?

Alyson Lex 30:28
Well, I understand. And that's why I was like, No, I didn't get feedback. I am. I like to just make things up and do them, and then find out and then if they don't work, they don't work. It's not. I tried.

Jason Wiehler 30:48
You just have to see how much runway you have with it. Yeah, that's exactly it. What are you gonna put into this thing? And if it flops, you have to say, Oh, okay. I was okay with losing it. Yeah.

Jennie Wright 31:01
What I like, though, in Allison's plan, and the only reason I like it is because I can help her and support her onyx, I know that this is the right thing. The container is still the same. Yeah. Right. The container itself is still the same, it's still the right. Still the right niche still the right, you know, we're making, she's making a change on the inside, which, by the way, I am nervous about that I fully support Allison trying new things, because quite honestly, we learn by innovation. And if we keep doing the same old thing, you know, how does that reflect? So she could be on to something that we don't know yet? It could be the next wave of ways to do summits? You don't know yet.

Alyson Lex 31:41
I could be the mother of the modern Summit, you might

Jason Wiehler 31:48
give you a scenario.

Alyson Lex 31:50
No, do not rain on my parade, Jenny, just be on to something,

Jason Wiehler 31:55
I could be on to something or you could be seeming like you're on something. So the thing is, is the

Alyson Lex 32:04
question is Why not both.

Jason Wiehler 32:07
All I'm gonna say is, is that this is going to happen, you're going to do this thing. And you're going to put it in this new container, and you're packaging it up a different way. And what you're hoping is that people actually get excited about the new packaging. Right? At the end of the day, it's what's in the box. If you if what's in the box is really, really good. It doesn't matter whether you do it the old way, or the new way it's going to work. If what's in the box is really, really bad, old way, new way. It's not going to work.

Jennie Wright 32:40
That was so Mr. Miyagi,

Jason Wiehler 32:43
I understand. There's there's a squish like grape kind of thing coming on here. Right? So the thing is, is that good point, if you actually do this, and the content, and what's in the box is really, really good. This is really going to work. Right?

Alyson Lex 33:00
And so what I think we're kind of concluding here with this little bit of line of conversation is play and test. But keep, as you know, keep

Jennie Wright 33:15
the integrity has to be maintained the Yeah, like, yes, so the container is great.

Jason Wiehler 33:25
Right? for branding purposes, you have to have some level of consistency from one thing to the other.

Jennie Wright 33:31
Yes. And I only have one thing with Allison that she cannot touch, I will literally cause problems with her. One is the funnel, the two do not change that VIP, because your all access pass on your summit last year was incredible. And I remember a couple months ago, you're like, I'm gonna change it up. And I'm like, if you change it, I will disown you as my friend, like, do not change because this was

Jason Wiehler 33:51
the VIP so successful, like so there's nothing there's nothing to do there except look at small tweaks to try and improve it but do not change it into any. Like if you change it to more than a few degrees, then you're you're right

Alyson Lex 34:04
don't overhaul right. So Well, it did convert really well. And so yet, like I said the same VIP, the same niche, the same quality content, it's whatever I call it, the same all of that. What is different is how the content is presented instead of 145 minute chunk. The expert gets 310 to 15 minute chunks. My thought is my hypothesis is it's consumable. It's more consumable. And my experts, my goal is twofold. One, it's more consumable. I keep that engagement but also that my experts are more excited to continue to promote throughout the event, because they're featured throughout the event. So those are my two hypotheses we shall see what

Jennie Wright 34:59
to do with We should do a post mortem on this at the June.

Jason Wiehler 35:04
Yeah, I would love to get the real numbers.

Alyson Lex 35:06
I'm happy to I'm happy to be fully transparent with real numbers this year versus last year. Yeah. And see what happens. Awesome. Well, Jason, thank you for coming and geeking out with us today about kind of making decisions and figuring out what questions to ask ourselves throughout an after and before and all of that, to give ourselves the best shot of success. We always appreciate you coming.

Jason Wiehler 35:37
Thanks for having me two more until we get to number five.

Jennie Wright 35:41
And we'll have to order you that blazer. Yes, yes. Where can people get in touch with you find you have conversations with you? What's the best way

Jason Wiehler 35:50
you can find me on Instagram and Twitter, and on Facebook. And I also have a website. That's Jason wheeler.com. And you can you can email me at Jason at Jason wheeler.com.

Jennie Wright 36:01
I will put all this in the show notes as well. So head on over to system to thrive.com You can check out this latest episode with Jason Wheeler. You can also check out his previous episodes because they are just as good. And you'll want to make sure that you listen to them because he is just a wealth of awesomeness. So go check them out. We're thankful you've been here. We'll be sure to have you back again. At least two more times. We can get you that whatever blazer I think a hoodie is just fine. It'll be all good. But he's earned himself a baseball cap. Allison, we'll send it to you. It'll have a big cat on it. So congrats.

Alyson Lex 36:34
Actually, you know what, if they make me mad, I might put just put a cat in it as well and send it up, back down to seven,

Jennie Wright 36:41
then you'll be done. And and then it'll come back. Okay. Thanks, everybody for being here. We really appreciate it. To come back soon. Check out the podcast and we'll be back again soon.

Jennie Wright 36:59
Bye thanks, everybody for being here. We really appreciate it and we'll be back again soon. Take care

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