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What We Talk About

In this show we’re going to talk about the GOOD funnels and the BAD funnels so you can make an informed decision on what it is YOU should be doing. Whether you’re #teamfunnel or #antifunnel, the truth is – funnels exist and have for a long time. You’ve just got to get on board with using them the right way for your business.


Free 15-Minute Funnel Diagnosis Call – if you're not sure where your funnel is going wrong, hop on a quick call with Jennie or Alyson and we'll help you figure it out.

Coming Soon: Branding Expert Kelly Wittman helps us make our look & feel match what our customer wants. (launches December 10th)

Google Ads Benchmark 2020 – Report by Wordstream that will help you determine how your ads SHOULD be performing on Google.

Facebook Ads Benchmark 2020 – This report by Wordstream will help you understand how Facebook ads perform across different industries.

The Marketing Institute Headline Analyzer – Want to know if your headlines are any good? This tool will help you calculate!

The Good Funnel Checklist – this guide will help you ask the important questions to make sure your funnel is performing as well as it can. Click the big button below to download.

Click here to get the resources from today's show

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:00
On today's episode, we're answering the question, what makes a funnel work or not work? And how do we get one that works? The big question is this as entrepreneurs, coaches and business owners, how do we consistently sell our products, programs and services without making our customers feel like we're only in it for the almighty dollar? How do we serve the way we know we're meant to serve and still run a profitable business? How do we put good into the world while we put dollars into our pockets? How do we change the lives of our community while also bettering the life we lead? It's not

Jennie Wright 0:34
a zero sum game. It's not an either or scenario, it is possible to thrive while serving your clients to the best of your ability. This podcast will show you how. I'm Jennie Wright. I'm Alyson Lex, and welcome to the System to THRIVE. My first funnel

Unknown Speaker 0:54
was horrible. It failed.

Jennie Wright 0:56
It did nothing for me. It did nothing for my business except Teach me That I was doing it all wrong. It was an epic, bad funnel. And it took me a long time to figure out how to do them right. Since then I absolutely am on Team funnel, because I can use them to attract leads into my business and grow my business and all those wonderful things. Heads Up. Today's episode is going to be a little bit of a rant, maybe a little punchy. But it's also going to be really, really fun. And if Alison I get the giggles, you're but you've been warned, because we've tried to hit record on a couple times now, but we can't stop so it's going to be interesting.

Alyson Lex 1:40
Yeah, I think this is like take six possibly. And we're looking for August. We've made it so far. Just as a heads up.

Jennie Wright 1:46
Yeah. Alright, so I have been using funnel successfully for a number of years. But I had to go through the process of quite a few epic failures to kind of get here because I didn't have any really good examples. People weren't teaching funnels eight years ago. They were just saying go build the thing. And honestly, when I started to come online, and I know Alyson was working in online business before I was, we were still in the ugly funnels stage. Ugly pages, ugly sales pages, ugly funnel pages, they still were a thing. And they were still converting. Because let's face it, people were a little less. Genesee quoi they were a little like, you know, they weren't as they weren't as savvy,

Alyson Lex 2:31
right? They

Jennie Wright 2:31
weren't as savvy these like honestly like flashy gaudy pic, you know, highlights and all sorts of stuff was a thing. So I did your research for today's episode, because as also knows I hate doing anything unprepared.

Alyson Lex 2:47
If you really don't guys,

Jennie Wright 2:48
oh, it really irks me. And yeah, so I did a little bit of research today. Even though I know my stuff. I wanted to get a bit of a perspective as to what is being said online and trust me, there is Have a bunch of pro funnel people and anti funnel people. And I'll tell you that again, Alyson I are on the pro funnel camp side, and hashtag teen funnel go us. And we're going to talk to you today about how to create a really good funnel, how and like, what the identifiers are for bad funnels, what's in them how to figure all this stuff out. So we're gonna have some fun talking about that. But what I want you to do is take a moment right now and go jot down the fact that we have a resource for you. You're going to go check it out on the show notes for today at System to, forward slash 15, that's numeral 15. Go check that out and grab the great resource that we have for you today on some funnels.

Alyson Lex 3:44
Okay, now before we dive into good funnel versus bad funnel, I want to talk about what a funnel is. And I think that this is why we have so many people that are anti funnel, hashtag team, no funnel Because they think a funnel is super impersonal. And it just it's all automated. And in the most extreme cases it is, but at its root. A funnel is an automated way to move people through either the entire or a portion of the buying process. It does not need to be your whole business in one fell swoop, you can have a webinar funnel that just drives people to a webinar and follows up with them a little bit, or a lead magnet that drives people to a PDF download and then offers them something else, a sales funnel that encouraged them to buy a product and then gives them an upsell. in its entirety, if you were to have a point A to Z funnel, it brings your customer from when they first learn about you and we call that being in your audience through being a lead when they give you their email address all the way through being a customer which is when they buy your stuff. Alright, Neil Patel, I did some research to thank you, Jenny. I tend to like to wing it. But, you know, my co host really hates that. So I researched stuff. It gives me eyes. It does. She really hates it, guys. I love it. So anyway, Neil Patel basically explains why the steps in this conversion process is called a funnel, and he does it really well. So I want to share it with you. He says, because at the beginning of the process, there are a lot of people who take the first step. Then as these people continue along to take the next step, some of them drop out and the size of the crowd fins or narrows, so it ends up being the shape of a funnel. I like to think of it being called a funnel because you're giving them a specific action or set of actions that you want them to take. And it's moving them from that top where you can toss them all in. Right Facebook traffic, Instagram traffic, paid ad traffic, search traffic. All this traffic can go into the big wide mouth at the top of a funnel. And then they get a very specific set of actions that lead to one result at the bottom of the funnel and that's the sale obviously, or the signup, or what have you. The idea of the funnel has been around for like ever, guys. Okay? It's just been a buzzword lately because people have given it a name and are teaching it, but it's been around for forever. So I am hashtag team funnel. Because I am a big fan of using the principles of marketing and business and applying it to modern day technology and strategies. A funnel is not a strategy. It's a principle.

Jennie Wright 6:49
Yeah, and it's been around guys, these have been around for decades. If you've ever bought something and gotten an email where it was like Hey, thanks for purchasing this such and such. We have 30% off are, you know are lipsticks if you know thanks for buying the eyeliner, do you want the lipstick? And you buy the lipstick? Congrats. You've been through a funnel.

Alyson Lex 7:08
Right? I you know, go ahead, even older, the Sears Roebuck catalog in the 30s Oh, yeah, was a funnel? Oh yeah, I'm gonna mail it to your house. That's my traffic. You're gonna buy for me using the order form that I've put in the catalog. That's a checkout page, guys. It's not new. And then when you get your product, there's going to be what's called a ride along. And that's an upsell option in the package. Hey, thanks for buying this dress. Do you want the shoes? Yeah. It's an upsell all of those fingers. Whatever. Right? Like all of those things have been going on. Pretty much since shopping was a thing.

Jennie Wright 7:58
Yeah, pretty much It makes sense because that's, you know, that's how business works. And there's nothing wrong with a funnel. So let's, let's dive in to what it means to get a funnel to work. Okay, so let's just, we're going to assume from here on out in this particular show this particular episode that you are building or you're trying to attract traffic to a free download. And then at the end of the download, you have a product that you want to offer a digital product, okay, so that's going to be the assumption going forward. So let's pretend that's what are doing what we're doing. Okay? So what it means when your funnel works, if it works, here's what's going to happen. You're going to add new people into your network with hopefully with consistency, but you're going to add new people and so you're going to grow your email list or you're going to grow your Facebook group or you're going to grow your business page, or you're going to add new leads into your CRM, okay, either way you're going to grow your network to it creates this really cool journey. With your ideal client, if you do it right, they get to know you. It creates connection, it builds relationships. And, three, it helps them move along their journey to a solution. The goal with your funnel isn't just get them in, get them buying, get them out, it's get them to know you create that relationship, you know, understand who they are and who you are. Put opportunities in front of them at the right space and time in their journey. Because honestly, if you're on if you're helping somebody lose weight, and you make the offer too soon before you've invested the time and telling them that they're worth investing in themselves and they deserve all the things then they're not going to make the purchase. So it's it has to be on their journey timeline, not yours. Okay. And then the fourth thing is it helps you automate your business you If you do it right, you can create an amazing webinar funnel, you could do the webinar live, then convert that into an evergreen webinar funnel, drive traffic to it. And as long as that webinar topic and the presentation is relevant and timely, Matt, like it's timely, and the offer is timely, then you can just keep doing it. And it works. Right. So those are the really good ways, you know, and these are just up level and Alison might have a thing that she wants to add here about how you know what happens when a funnel works. But the basic tenants are like, get them in, create that, you know, relationship, all those wonderful things and eventually lead them to being a buyer.

Alyson Lex 10:41
Now in a few minutes, we're planning we did plan, we are planning to talk about the metrics to look for and so we have some good information for you there but I wanted to just talk about some basics about what makes a funnel work. The first thing and in my opinion One of the most important things is the triple m match. And that's the letter M. The triple m matches something actually learned from Dan Kennedy way back in the day and it stands for message market and media. That means you're you're sending the right words to the right people in the right place. If my audience is hanging out on Instagram, I am not going to have a media match by posting only on Facebook. If my market is 65 year old women, I'm not going to have a message match by talking to millennial men. If my product helps people retire, those millennial men may not be interested either. Right? So message market media. They all have to match. And that leads into an offer that they want. This is kind of multifaceted. An offer that they want can be something that solves a problem that they actually have. And it should. We don't want to manufacture problems for people. We're not trying to teach happily married women how to play the dating field. They don't want that. Okay? It also needs to be something they can afford. We don't want to charge $25,000 to people who need to declare bankruptcy.

Jennie Wright 12:34
They just let's be honest, that there are funnels out there that do that scammy stuff, and those fall under the part of the bad funnel thing and we'll talk about that a little bit.

Alyson Lex 12:44
Yeah, Jenny's right. Everything we're teaching is about how to actually help your people actually, like transform their lives in a positive way and make money while you're doing it. So you want this to be something that They actually want to buy something they can afford to buy. And then your copy, and your pages and all of your follow up, gives them the reason to buy and then they need the opportunity to buy. So they need to know about it, you have to tell people that it exists. All right, we also need to make it easily accessible in the form of the sales stuff. Your tech needs to work. Your copy isn't confusing. Your, your pages link together the right way. And I know Jenny's gonna want to talk about the look and feel because this is something she's super passionate about. But I'm going to talk about copy for a second. You don't want to create stumbling blocks with your copy or with your look and feel that Jenny I'll talk about don't want to create stumbling blocks for your people. You want them to be able to consume and react to your messaging. They can't do that your funnel won't work. And the last thing I'm gonna say that's a really good segue into what Jenny wants to say, is you want consistency.

Jennie Wright 14:10
Well, actually, to go back to your point about copy, and I just want to dive in there for a second because quite honestly, if it plays a huge role, the copy when you have a funnel that works, the copy is at the right level. Let's just be honest, if Alison and I wanted to, we could pontificate and be superflous with $25 words, okay, because we can it's, yeah, but we don't, because that's not the level at which our ideal client speaks. Okay? And if we want to sound like, let's just be honest, pompous twats. We

Unknown Speaker 14:43
could, but we don't want to.

Jennie Wright 14:46
Okay, we want to speak to our ideal client, and we don't want to alienate them. And copy has a huge role in that. So when you're getting your coffee, you know if you're gonna write coffee, if you're gonna write a headline, and Allison And I told you we were going to giggle Allison.

Alyson Lex 15:02
I know I'm just thinking that we lost our like everybody rating for this episode.

Jennie Wright 15:05
I didn't say anything. I didn't I honestly did. There was no swearing. All I said was the word pompous. And then was a T word, but the T

Unknown Speaker 15:16
word doesn't.

Jennie Wright 15:18
If you're if you're British, it's not bad.

Alyson Lex 15:21
Neither. Okay.

Jennie Wright 15:25
I'm not British either, but it's not that. Okay,

Alyson Lex 15:27
whatever, whatever will keep you know,

Jennie Wright 15:30
it's all good. Allison's have has the giggles now, but copy really plays a role when you're trying to talk to your ideal client to my point, which is about the look and feel. The look and feel actually to have a funnel that works has everything to do with your ideal client. And very little to do with the fact that you like the color pink. Okay, it really, really doesn't. So if you come and you're like, Oh, I just, you know, God loves the color pink and I gotta have it has to be this perfect tone of fuchsia. has to be this business. But your ideal client doesn't speak to that and it shouldn't. And it's not the right color. And we you know, funny enough. We have an episode coming up with a really incredible branding expert called Kelly Whitman, you're going to want to check this out. And it's, it's something that's really, really cool. And that's actually an episode that's a little bit further in the future, but you should check it out. It's Episode 27. And so get ready for that in a little bit. But we talked about color as it relates to the fact of like, how people connect to to you and your brand and your business. And color plays a role and that plays into the look and feel. And what's really, really important is having the look and feel feel synonymous not only with you as your brand, but with how your ideal client identifies with their journey and everything that goes along with it. So think about that. And nothing against you. If you love pink. I love pink just as much as the next person. But we really want people to think a little bit deeper. Okay? If you want the page to convert, it has to look good period, end of story.

Alyson Lex 17:15
And story. So earlier, I talked about what metrics you want to use to measure that success. And this is a really good time to talk about that. So there really are three questions that you want to ask yourself. Number one, are you generating leads? If you're not generating leads, is it working? The answer's no, by the way, so I wanted to talk about what to expect when it comes to conversion rates. There are a ton of resources out there, and I'm gonna go ahead and make a note for myself to link to one of those in our show notes page and It is the kind of the ads benchmark study, I think it's word stream or something, publishes it every year. This is something you should know it kind of breaks it down by industry. And that's when you're running ads. So that's cold traffic. When you're running warm traffic, your rates are gonna go up from there. Okay? I used to say that when we were sending cold direct mail, okay, that a three to 5% conversion rate was killing it. So that's three to 534 or five out of every 100 people that got a mail piece that responded or bought was killing it.

Jennie Wright 18:43
That's still the certain that's still the same for online right now

Alyson Lex 18:46
for cold traffic online. That's still the case. So really set your expectations to a point where you're not saying I'm going to sell 99 out of 100 If they're cold, again, warmer traffic is different. If you if you have spent the time building the relationship with your audience, if you have given them content, showing them value, help them transform, your conversion rates are going to increase.

Jennie Wright 19:21
There's something that I want to interject here and it has to do with the expectation side of things. So if you're if you come to somebody like Alyson and I and you're like, I want to add 1000 leads to my business.

Alyson Lex 19:34
That's your goal.

Jennie Wright 19:36
The math behind that dictates that either you are buying your way in with ads, or you're working your way in with organic traffic. And if you want 1000 leads, you're gonna have to work your tail off either way. You're either spending money on ads, so think about it. If cold traffic converts at three to 5% and you want 1000 leads. Think about How many people you need to get so for every hundred people who look at your OPT in page, let's just let's just put it at 10% make it easy math. So 100 people look at your OPT in page 10% opt in. Okay, so that's 10 people. If you want 1000 leads start adding zeros to how many people actually have to see it. Then start doing the math on how much those ads would cost per lead. That's your budget. Tada. Congrats, you now have an ad budget. If you want to go on the organic side, and you want to thousand leads. Normally speaking with most people, the conversion rate on a warm traffic page Allison correct me if I'm wrong, is somewhere between 20 and maybe 35 or 40%. there abouts. I am not joking. When Alison and I create pages together her doing the copy me doing the visuals and the look and feel we have had conversion rates of 55 6070 even 85% Okay. Which is awesome. That's to warm traffic that's to current traffic current, you know, list builds that they already have, and people on their social channels. So imagine you want 1000 leads, you have a 50% conversion rate. Okay for every 150 people sign up, you want 1000 leads. Now you can do the math again, on organic, which one's going to work better for you? which one can you afford? So when you're looking at conversion rates, match those expectations to what you're willing to do, what you're willing to pay for, and what you actually can achieve. That's going to help you not feel like you just got robbed by putting out a lead magnet and promoting it. We have a client Allison and I we've had you know, we've had clients in the past who had 00 social media, presence, none and no list. And that person ran a webinar. They grew their list I think by 25 people. Okay, let's Just be honest, they were just like, put it out there first time. That's a success for them. Because they had nothing. And now they have 25 people, the next time they ran it, you know, they were at 75. The next time they ran it, they were at 140 people, you know, because it incrementally will grow because you have more people as you go. And just having those little incremental successes is is something to cheer about, because that is technically a success. So that's all I wanted to potentially, you know, that was me pontificating about conversion rates.

Alyson Lex 22:32
And that is why the question is not are you generating hundreds of leads a week? It's just Are you generating leads, I've had funnels that I call my slow burn funnels that I just kind of promote, when, you know, they live in my profile links. I might talk about them from stage, they're on the back of my business card, which clearly I haven't used in a while. Thank you. But they're my slow burns. I'm not pushing them really hard. And so I get a few leads here and there. I may get three leads a day, or whatever. Okay, that's a win for me. Because there's no effort going into it. If I was pushing it really hard, and really focused on doing it and pushing it and promoting it, yes, I would have the expectation that it would generate more, but it's just kind of their throw away opportunities for me. Of course, there's the follow up and all that included, but it's just there. Okay, the next question, are you making money? If it's a sales funnel, if there's a sales aspect related to it, is there a revenue figure attached? And the caveats are the follow up question. To this rather, are you making more than you're spending to promote it? That's called return on adspend. By the way, our o a s in the funnel world, your goal is to have an ROI as of more than one. If you have an R o a s, a row ass of more than one, you have a profitable funnel. Alright, the question the age old question that I've I've heard people talk about when it comes to ad spend and advertising budgets and things like that is if you gave me $1 and I gave you $1 and one dime in return. How many dollars would you give me all the dollars, all the dollars because every time I'm making 10 cents, that's literally all you need to do is make one penny more than you're spending and you are now profitable. It may not be the profit that you're looking for. But I'll tell you a little kind of secret. All the big people with million dollar launches, and million dollar events, and million dollar products and million dollar programs are spending half or three quarters or nine tenths of a million to get there. Correct.

Jennie Wright 25:24
Now, you may not think that that is a great way to do business and I know people in my sphere who don't think that that's kosher, they really don't. And that's totally cool. Those people are better off working on organic so if you can't wrap your head around the fact that if you want a million dollar launch, you're spending 500,000 like you're spending like boatloads of money on ads and people and copy and pages and everything else. Then, you know, if you can't wrap your head around that, then you have to look at organic Do you just absolutely do so B. And if you can handle that row, as you know, of literally plus one, putting that into, you know, putting that into the positive column, then great, then you can absolutely handle the ups and downs in the swervy TVs of buying ads. Right. So that's a really great way to put it out. And I love that.

Alyson Lex 26:22
Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that says you have to run an ad ever. And if you run an ad, it doesn't have to be on Facebook. There are hundreds of places you can advertise industry publications, solo emails, other social networks, there are places you can advertise that is not you know, the big. The Big Three Facebook, big for Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and Google. Yeah,

Jennie Wright 26:50
untapped markets. Reddit, look for them if you

Alyson Lex 26:52
want. Yeah, I mean, if you're a local more local business, there's Nothing wrong with sponsoring a local soccer team and advertising that way and community advertising. Right. Having a booth at a fair like think outside the box when it comes to advertising, especially if you're local. I had a potential client who ran Spotify ads, radio ads, guys, on Spotify. Why not? They're much cheaper because they're less utilized Pandora, there's a ton of radio stations out there I Heart Radio, Spotify, Pandora, they all have ads. And then you have your more independent radio stations. I actually advertised on one once just to try it out. It didn't work for me wasn't my audience didn't have the triple and match but it's like 50 bucks was worth a shot. So I don't want to spend a too I don't want spend any more time on ads. Okay? But also are you making more than it costs you to create the funnel if you've hired help? If you've come to someone like Jennie and myself to help you write the copy and create the design and build the strategy, and all of the things that we do for our clients, did you have a positive ROI return on investment on that? We have a client who was doing a beta launch. She hired us to help her do it. We came up with a strategy. We helped her with the copy. We built all the pages. We did everything. She sold a bunch of them. Oh, yeah. And by the time she was done, she had money left over after paying us.

Jennie Wright 28:40
Exactly. And that wasn't you know, that wasn't a low end project. That was that was a good chunk project. It was a good sized comma in it. Yeah, there was a comma. There was definitely a comma there. And it was worth it. Because, you know, that client basically made back her investment. After the first webinar of three webinars that they ended up doing before the beta launch to promote that beta launch, they made that investment back. Everything else was gravy. Right? And you've got to look at it like that when you look at a summit, and this is just to deal with expectations on when a funnel is working or not working. The goal of a summit and this is you've got to work with the mentality of this. The goal of a summit is to attract leads, it's not to sell the darn bleepy bleep VIP package. Okay, the VIP package is little bits of gravy. So if you don't know what a summit is a summit is an online event where you interview a bunch of people. And you know, it's pre pre recorded and it's released at a certain date. The goal being that you as the host interview all the experts, the experts help you promote, attract all the leads to your list. Congratulations, you've added leads to your list. And the VIP offer within that summit helps defer some of the costs now with a summit as an example. When it's over, you still have two or three years that you can actually use the content from a summit to help generate more leads more traffic and more income. You could take that summit, let's just say the summit costs you five grand to do, okay? And I'm just pulling a number out of a hat. Don't freak out, please, no clutching pearls, right? It's let's just say that's what it costs you to do. And at the end of it, you pull in 1500 brand new leads, and you made $2,000 off your VIP. Okay, so you're not ready. You're not positive yet on your cost of investment. But you do have 1500 brand new leads. If you make an offer to those leads have a $500 program product or service. How many do you have to sell to be positive? Not very many, right? And you could take that summit and re bundle it into a bunch of podcast interviews. products. These kinds of things. And now you've figured out that the summit is now making money for you over the long term. So again, that's just something that you've got to think about.

Alyson Lex 31:09
Yes. So I was making a note because I wanted to bring up a couple of things that you should know when it comes to whether you're making money and also when it comes to setting your goals. So question number three that you want to ask is, are you hitting your goals? This is really important to go back to those expectations that Jenny and I just talked about, when you set your goals, right, you want to know how much am I willing to put into this? Because that's going to directly affect how much I get out. I know that before you set your goal, it can be really easy to say, I want to get 500 people from this webinar, but I'm only going to post about it on Instagram one time. That's an unrealistic goal. Just FYI, unless you have like a bajillion people following you on Instagram. That's not a realistic goal. So understand where you're starting how much you're willing to put in, and then make your goal from there. But there are some numbers that you need to know. And this is something that's really important that I thought of when Jennie was talking about that summit. Let's say you get 1500 leads from your summit, it costs you $5,000. If you don't know the lifetime value of your lead of every lead that comes in, you're not going to know whether you've made a profit for however many years it takes those leads to close. So this is a really important number to begin looking at. Now. If I have 10 leads and I know that one out of every 10 leads will close as a customer. Okay, I now know I have a 10% close rate. And then if I know that customer is worth $10 easy math guys for a reason, exactly, every customer is worth $10. And one out of every 10 leads will become a customer. Every lead is worth $1. So for me to be profitable on a $5,000 summit, I need 5000 leads. So simple math, there are a couple of ways to hit your numbers, increase the number of leads, increase the number of conversions, or increase the lifetime value. That's it. That's actually how you grow your business. In a nutshell, I'll have to do a quick tip on that. increase the number of leads you get, increase the number of customers you get, or increase the amount that they spend. So I've got 1500 leads, I've spent $5,000 I have a 30 $500 deficit. What do I need to do to make that up? Well, I've already got the leads. I've already spent the money so now I need to get Those people to either convert more or spend more. So I now know where to focus my efforts. Okay, that kind of leads me into the next part of this, which is what to do when it's not working. Okay? The first thing is to find the breakdown spot. Where is it not working. Every single part of your funnel is a conversion point. Your your ad is a conversion point. There's click through, there's opt in. So that's your landing page. Then there's engagement, which is your emails, then there is upsell downs, all of those pieces. Each one of those has the potential to be a breakdown spot as I call it. I remember having a consult with a potential client. She didn't need to hire me because I explained this to her. Her traffic was good Her ads were performing really well. She was getting a lot of hits on her landing page. And she was converting them really, really well. Once they became a lead, she was not getting the opt ins. So the breakdown spot was her landing page. When you know where your breakdown spot is, and that means you need to know your numbers at every step of the funnel or every step of the journey. When you know where that breakdown spot is. That's where you can target the fix. I have a potential client right now. They know the breakdown spot, they reached out to me and said, this is where we're not working. It's their emails, their ads or they've got 8% return on or eight times return on adspend. For every dollar they're putting in ads, they're making eight. Awesome.

Jennie Wright 35:48
That's a great conversion.

Alyson Lex 35:50
It's huge. They're converting from at 25% from their low end program to their high end program. I can't touch that right now. We might be able to Later now, their emails are converting at 3%.

Jennie Wright 36:04
Yeah, that if they got one more percent out of that if their emails converted at 4% What would that mean financially Right, exactly.

Alyson Lex 36:10
So they know where that breakdown spot is. And so that tells us where the opportunity for the fix is. Yeah, it's really important that you know your numbers at every stage of the game.

Jennie Wright 36:22
I love that point. It plays so well into how we talk to clients about everything the tweaking the testing, the changing and I want to I want to play with this one point with you guys for a minute and this is about when I realized I just sounded very Canadian when I said, I know it came out that way. A very Canadian, it's all good. I when I get passionate, it starts popping in there. When you look at a funnel and you're like it isn't converting, the landing page isn't converting or an email isn't converting or whatever the case is. Do not Do not Capital word like capital letters here do not change and overhaul everything. Okay? If your car's making a funny noise, you don't take it to the shop and say, taken apart all of it right down to the nuts and bolts, and then rebuild it again in fear with that is you don't do it. The mechanic for the diagnostician for that particular you know, area and I can talk to this, my dad was a mechanic listens and tries to diagnose what the issue is, and then tries to address it. So that breakdown spot that Allison is good at identifying or the client can identify or that we can identify makes all the difference. So here's a really good way to look at it. If you think it's your OPT in page and you've kind of determined by your numbers, that the opt in page on your funnel is not converting then now you've got to look at a couple things. One is it you know, do you do a video on the landing page? Is the video not converting to you know Are if you take a look at the numbers are people bouncing off the page really, really quickly. So if you have like an 80% bounce rate, which means they're on the page for like seconds and they go, Nope, I'm out and they're gone, then it's probably the look and feel. Okay? So what you do is you change one little thing, and then you leave it. And you let it ruminate and sit and get some traffic to it, and see if it converts or not. And if the one little thing didn't work, you try something else. Okay, the video isn't complete, or maybe it's the video, okay, so we're going to change the video. Maybe it's the headline, alright, let's tweak the headline. But there's a lot of space and time between these tweaks, it's not change 30 things and then send traffic to it. Because if you do that, you're never going to know what the fix was. And additionally, you may not even address the thing that needed to be fixed in the first place. So let's let's talk about an example. And Allison is going to talk about this because actually it was her idea.

Alyson Lex 38:56
So I actually two examples. So one I have a friend that has a huge business to consumer business. And it's, you know, I don't want to give any identifying information, but he's doing really well like a million dollars a month well, and it's really fun, because we'll message back and forth. And we'll play with landing pages, or we'll play with sales pages or something like that. And I get to like, really, and he'll give me results. And so every once in a while, I'll be like, Hey, we should try this headline. And then he'll tell me Hey, I saw a point 3% bump. When you're talking about a million dollars a month that's a lot of money, guys. He also spends a lot on ads. So don't you know, transparency there, but we never overhaul whole page. Now I will give him feedback on an entire page and he will make one tweak at a time because he wants to know this is going to give me a point 3% lift. This is going to Give me a 1% lift. This is going to pull me down by point 2%. He wants to know everything. And what that means is the next time he does something new, he has more of a likelihood of hitting it out of the park. The other example that I wanted to talk about is a client of ours that she had a landing page and we, we created it, and it wasn't converting well. So hashtag transparency. Jenny and I talked about all of these big numbers we can get. We are capable of some small numbers to guys.

Jennie Wright 40:36
We absolutely are fully capable, fully, fully capable of having a flub, and but the thing is, is how do we deal with it?

Alyson Lex 40:43
And what we did is we said we need to do another version. And so we kind of, we took the same copy and we took the same overall design, we change the format of it. We changed the layout Little bit we changed the length we cut some stuff and did not beat the first one. So again, hashtag transparency guys, it didn't it didn't beat the first one. Just because we made a tweak did not mean it improved. So what that does is that tells us it's not the format. It tells us that there's something else wrong. And it's almost like a an investigation. Right? You go down this one path and it's wrong or maze. And then so you backtrack and you figure out where else to go. Is that the message? Is it the title? Is it the media? Is it the way that it's being promoted? Is it the colors Is it the brand is it the and you can start picking away at why it's not working?

Jennie Wright 41:50
And if the look and feel isn't working, let's just be honest. If the look and feel is not the the deal breaker, then it's the coffee and if it's not the coffee then it's The actual offer or the message, right? And not necessarily like necessarily the copy per se, but it's like what's being said, What's the, what's being talked about in there? Right? So there's so many things to look at and to, to play around with. And here's a funny one, and I get to giggle about this one.

Alyson Lex 42:18
Okay, so I'll share my secret Shame on you.

Jennie Wright 42:21
I'm totally going to share your secret shame. Allison, I, at the time of this recording are about to do a webinar. We're doing a webinar about a week from this recording. In preparation for that webinar. We were figuring out the title in the tag now. Also, I have some pretty cool schedules where you know, Allison gets up in the middle of the bloody night. And I tend to sleep a little bit later, when I wake up. She's usually like, Hey, I did a whole bunch of stuff. And I because I'm up later, she's asleep, and I'm doing a bunch of stuff. So when she wakes up, there's a bunch of stuff that's been, you know, messages back and forth. And what happened was, is that we had this idea for it. titling a tag for this webinar that we're doing. And, you know, it was cute because we were trying to figure out what this was going to be. And it was like, I'm creating the page for it. And for some reason, the title and the tag wasn't hidden for me, it wasn't doing it. And we use a rescore resource. And we'll put this in the resource section that's called the headline analyzer, okay, by the Marketing Institute. Now, they just updated their page, thank all things that they did, because it literally looked like it was built in 1994, up until a couple of months ago. So it was really strange to use this thing because it really wasn't that good or looked at it didn't look good. But what it does is you you take your headline and your tagline, you throw it in the headline analyzer and it analyzes it and it spits out a percentage that it thinks it'll convert. Okay, so 22% you know, and it speaks to intellectuals or 35% and it speaks to spiritual people, or 50%. And it's, it like speaks to me Buddy, Allison I try really, really hard to get headlines and taglines that actually will convert above 40%. Allison had this headline written. And like I said, it wasn't working for me. It just didn't I don't know why it wasn't hitting me. So I threw it in the headline analyzer. And it came through it what else in like 20% to 22%, sorry. And now Allison is the copywriter.

Alyson Lex 44:27
I'm not the copywriter. Well, I, in my defense, I have gotten 5060 70% on this thing. I've gotten the Triple Threat like I have nailed it on these with this webinar, guys. I had nothing. Yeah,

Jennie Wright 44:43
well, it wasn't it just wasn't the cogs weren't clicking. Nothing was catching. So I decided to try my hand at it. And I made a couple tweaks to what else and threw it in there and it came out at 44%. And she was like No, we're gonna try another one and we tried like 15 different headlines and taglines and minus have been the best.

Alyson Lex 45:01
Yeah, well Yeah, I like I'm I get this one and I was like, this is awesome comes on my phone so I was using my thumbs. I was like, this one's gonna be it. This one's gonna be a 51 or above 12 00 That's right 00 percent. How the devil did I get a zero? Now, what's funny, actually that you mention it because I just looked at our landing page stats for that webinar and we are converting at 44%

Jennie Wright 45:32
Yep, we are we are no,

Alyson Lex 45:35
it's 44% it's a good indicator. Now, obviously there's more copy than just the headline, but that was kind of like a goosebumps. chilima.

Jennie Wright 45:44
Yeah, it means is working.

Alyson Lex 45:46
So that's that's a really cool thing to look at when you're when you're actually looking at, you know, your copy and whatnot. Now, we talked about this a lot when we talked about, you know, what to do when it's not working and The examples that we've given you. So what makes a funnel not work? Is the converse of what will make a funnel? Actually, yes work. And I want you to go back to the triple m on this the message media market match. Am I sending the right message to the right people in the right place? And I would even also look at is this the right time? Is it the right time in our relationship? Is it the right time in their journey? Is it the right time to be promoting this? When somebody opts in from a one page checklist lead magnet, probably not the right time to pitch them on a $25,000 mastermind, just saying and also probably not the right way to do it via email. So I really want you to look at that if your funnel is not working message media market time. Maybe I'll make it the forum and call moment Oh, new system calling it now. So, as Jenny's talked about the look and feel she could probably go on about this for another hour, which is why I'm not going to let her the look and feel. If your stuffs not working, double check that. Check your headline with the headline analyzer. Check your copy. Is your copy clear? Is your copy consistent? Is your copy compelling, the Triple C method. But really, what you want to do is make sure that you're not giving your people any stumbling blocks in the way it looks, the way it works, or the way it reads. And also, just make sure that it's an offer that your people want is the offer good. Show your offer and your funnel to your ideal client. Do the research. Ask them if they would buy it, ask them if they like it, ask them if they need it. Get that kind of feedback, because it's really important that you're going in the right way. direction. There's a saying you don't want to throw good money after bad. You don't want to put all this time, effort and energy into something if people don't want it to begin with. So that's kind of what makes the funnel not work what to do when it doesn't work. I don't know anything else.

Jennie Wright 48:22
She's tapped out. She's She's all tapped out. Just hilarious. Okay, so this whole episode has been about the good funnels and the bad funnels and our personal experiences and hopefully some information that you can take from today. And us. We don't want you to be afraid of using funnels, we want you to integrate them into your business. And if you already have them, we want you to really look at increasing your use of them in all of the good ways. So I want to remind you to head on over to System to forward slash 16. Okay, and I want you to grab our download And that is, we're going to tell you a little bit more about that. It's going to be a really great resource on the good funnel checklist and what to do when your funnel doesn't work. This is going to help you like problem solve these things. So that it really helps. So that's forward slash 16. And I realized that the beginning of the episode, I actually said it was 15. And I apologize it's System to Ford slash 16. That's one six. Thank you so much for being here with us on this particular episode. We hope you found it helpful, and we will be back with another big question next time. Thanks again for watching or listening to this podcast. We hope we've answered some of your big questions today. Be sure to subscribe

Unknown Speaker 49:39
to the podcast anywhere

Jennie Wright 49:40
you're listening and leave us a review.

Alyson Lex 49:43
Also, make sure you've checked out the thrive collaborative podcast community, our Facebook group for listeners and entrepreneurs. Find us on Facebook or online at System to



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