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What We Talk About

You’ve got an offer you want some eyeballs on – and you know your best sales come when your people are highly engaged with you.

Enter: The Challenge. The bootcamp. The live launch event. The whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

But how do you figure out what to teach? How do you know the best way to keep people engaged? How do you make it an EASY yes for your people so it’s highly profitable for you.

That’s what we’re covering in today’s episode.

Resources

Stirling’s Website
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Get your Content Mapping Tool so you can do exactly what Stirling did on the episode for yourself!

Check out the entire library of sales and list building episodes.

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:03
If you have a product or a program or a course, or even a service that helps people achieve a goal, there's a really great way to give them kind of a preview of what you can do for them. And that is a free challenge. And if you've tried a challenge before, you may have been overwhelmed. And maybe you are unsure about how to get that easy. Yes without feeling sleazy. And so we have been talking to the CEO of stack digital, the creator of launch perfect, Mr. high and tight himself, Sterling Gardiner. And he has actually this three step system that we are going to dive into today, to help you have the most successful challenge. You can write Sterling.

Stirling Gardner 0:52
Yeah, thanks for the high and tight intro.

Alyson Lex 0:56
We were joking about his haircut earlier and talking about different hairstyles. And I told him, I had to use that in the intro. So I got it in there. Talk to me about Really, the biggest place people go wrong with a challenge. Let's let's talk about the bad. First, I'm going

Stirling Gardner 1:15
to tell you the biggest place people go wrong is even one step removed from that or one step ahead of that is I feel like a lot of people quit before they even start because the preconceived notion is is so much work. So that's a big thing that we try to handle right away. As I tell people look, any kind of marketing is going to have, you know, a complex and varied number of tasks. But if you have systems and processes in place, that can drastically reduce the amount of energy time input and overwhelm that you have. So we put together and I'm not turning this into a pitch fest. But the thing that I have around challenges is literally a process and a system that eliminates 97% Of all the work you have to do prep work for a challenge. So it's templatized it's systemized its process sized, I just made that word up. We have outlines structure tool, like you name it, you just come and plug your expertise and your genius into our system. And then that allows people to do the fun part of the challenge, which is showing up live connecting with their audience sharing their expertise, teaching them answering questions, so we try to get all the all the stuff that would normally take three months in a team to do handled in as little as two weeks.

Jennie Wright 2:46
Two weeks, okay. I'm, you know, you got my you got my interest there. What else are people doing wrong? And challenges? I know, challenges Alson those challenges, we both run them? What are other people doing wrong in challenges that they're just not seeing?

Stirling Gardner 2:59
I would say that the number one thing, and then this lever works both ways, right? The biggest swing, so we always talk about like, what's the what's the little hinge that swings the big door. But this can also close the door. So is knowing exactly what to teach. Because I feel like people get lost in their own genius, and they're an expert expertise. And they want to share, quote, unquote, all the things. And especially this is not a knock to anyone, personally, because we all fall into it. But we want to prove ourselves. We want to share everything that we know, we want people to like us respect us listen to us. And so if you don't dial in exactly what to teach in a way that is digestible, logical and makes sense for your audience. You can lose them on day one. And if you lose them on day one, and they disengage, I'm telling you, you will never get them back. So it's super crucial to just set up what are the building blocks of these four to five days going to be? How do we teach in small digestible chunks? I always tell people we want to, we want to teach in such a way that every day gets a little mini transformation. So light bulb should go off every day. And then day one, I don't know how deep do you guys want to go for this? Deep? Deep, okay, well, when I work with people on a map, help them map out their content. The first thing you have to figure out is okay, what's the what's the we talked in marketing about the big promise, right? What is the one outcome that you're telling people that they're gonna get? What's the promise if they do these things that they're going to get at the end? So we have to pull that back. We talked about that with offers all the time, but we have to apply that to your challenge, too, right? So at the end of these four to five days, what is the one thing these people are going to walk away from a walk away with, excuse me, so that you have to figure that piece out? And so Let's say, actually give me a topic. So we'll sort of map one out here.

Alyson Lex 5:05
sales copy. I mean, what?

Stirling Gardner 5:09
Okay. So the first thing I would do if I was working with you to put together a challenge around sales copy is I would say, what is the outcome there? You expect them to have at the end of those four to five days?

Alyson Lex 5:26
Well, and it's funny, because even before we do that, shouldn't we decide what to sell? Because the outcome that I want them to have might change depending on if I'm selling my copy services? Or I've created a copy course? Right?

Stirling Gardner 5:39
Yeah, we'll go. So I will reverse engineer from the offer that we're leading into, okay, the challenge, I assumed naively there was just one offer. So what is that big offer that you're leading them into?

Alyson Lex 5:52
I'm gonna make it tough on you and pretend that I want to sell done for you copy services.

Stirling Gardner 5:59
Okay, that's fine. Play, I would also ask you, let's get more specific done for you. What kind of copy services, email sales pages, landing pages, sales pages,

Alyson Lex 6:11
funnels, funnel, like sales page landing page to sales page with some email follow up like a funnel type of situation.

Stirling Gardner 6:20
I would, before we even map it out, I would tell you to pick even if you do all of those things, I would tell you to pick one. So we can really get specific and hone in on what the content is you're going to teach throughout because there's just again, a curse of the expert. Like, I want to tell you that I can do all of these things. And people are like holy crap too much. So as an example, I saw a guy, I was like, damn, talking about niching down, I saw a guy with an ad that actually got on a call with him because I wanted to see, I want to experience it. He does webinar email sequences only. That's his, that's his niche for coffee. That's very

Jennie Wright 6:58
niche. I love that super niche, right? Super niche down.

Stirling Gardner 7:02
And so even like seeing the ad, I'm like, This guy's got to be the best webinar email copywriter. Ever. If that's like his thing, whether or not that's true, I don't know. But like that niching down, it's like, well, I know exactly what I'm going to aim for. So what would you like people to say? That's exactly what I want her to work on.

Alyson Lex 7:26
I'll go with what Jenny said. And sales pages, sales pages,

Jennie Wright 7:29
sales page, copy all the way sales page copy.

Stirling Gardner 7:31
Okay. So I would you want done for you? Okay, I would say great. So the the promise at the end of the offer is how you're going to have the super fun high converting sales page. So you as somebody who teaches that, what would you want the outcome of somebody to go through a four to five day challenge training with you? Like, what's the big here?

Jennie Wright 8:00
Okay, I was gonna say, because while you're thinking about it, if you pull it back, what if it's not that they write the sales page in four or five days? It's that they come up with the concept, like the parts that they need to know, or the, you know, because there's different parts of the sales page, and maybe they start to formulate what some of that is or now?

Stirling Gardner 8:21
Yeah, that's been that literally be the next question I would ask. So I would say on the first end, I would I would suggest is, hey, we want to arm these folks. We want to educate these folks so that they could build their own high converting sales page at the end of this, knowing most people aren't going to want to write their sales page. And so the background is, I want to vet this person, ie you the person leading this so that I can feel comfortable making. Yes, I could go do this on my own. And it takes me eight weeks or longer. Or I could pass this off to a professional that has now walked me through their system walk me through their framework, walk me through how I couldn't do it. But now I feel comfortable passing that off. So we want to give them a ton of value. And and I tell people to aim for at the end of it. We're gonna talk about this later about how I transitioned into like the offer, I would say something along the lines of you guys now have everything you need to go off and do this on your own really, really well. If you want help with that, if you want to get your page done faster, easier and better. This is a service I provide and I can get it to you. You know the turnaround time is two weeks, whatever the case might be. Let's say you want to say hey guys, here's everything that you need. I had a great time helping you. And there's you're never going to convert those DF Wi Fi. DIY people anyway, they're gonna go try to do it themselves anyway, right? You don't want them you just you're establishing trust. US expertise and authority through the challenge so that people like, you know, if the price is right, this is a no brainer, I gotta do this.

Alyson Lex 10:09
What I think is really interesting is, that would also maybe be a similar process. If I had a course, like, let's say, at a sales pitch, of course, I maybe wouldn't teach them, like give them the whole formula right then, but maybe help them with a certain part of it or coming up with XYZ. And then be like, Hey, if you want the rest of this get my course is that kind of how we would go from big promise to a sale is I would get them part of the way and then promised steps B through Z.

Stirling Gardner 10:39
Yeah, we could go down the rabbit hole talking about this positioning, well, could be positioning and price anchoring, too, because you could say, Look, guys, I have two offers. If you're the kind of person that wants to do this on your own, and think you can run with it, great, I have this course it costs this, you're gonna be able to finish it in this amount of time. If you're like me and short on time and want to get things done well and right, I also offer a done for you, then you just have to talk about okay, am I pushing those people to a phone call? So you could you could definitely have two offers as long as they're congruent, and you know, in ascension model,

Jennie Wright 11:18
so I'm gonna bring you back because one of the things we were talking about was starting with the big promise and what you want to have them achieve in the next four to five days. And then we got specific on the Allison, like the copy thing. But what goes in between what is the what are we going to teach? And how are we going to engage with them? Part of this five day challenge before a challenge? How are we going to do that? What what comes between the big promise and the, at the end of the challenge, you're going to aim to make that offer that we just talked about?

Stirling Gardner 11:44
Yeah. So if the if the big promise of this particular challenge is, by the end of this, you're going to know how to write your own highly engaging, high converting sales page. Great. So when I would sit down with somebody, I'd say, okay, great. We know the offer we're selling at the end, we know the promise of the challenge. The first thing I always ask is, and this is day one is crucial, you guys, day one is okay. What is the number one problem? You as the expert know, they think they have when it comes to writing their own sales page. It's not the number one problem, you know, they have is sometimes that's averted? What do they think their number one problem is? Go ahead and tell me what you think, oh, yeah,

Alyson Lex 12:35
I'm a terrible writer, I can't write. I'm a bad writer, I don't write well, some variation of ability to write.

Stirling Gardner 12:45
Okay. And as the experts, what is the well, first off, that's what they that's the subject matter of day one, you're just addressing what they know, their biggest problem is. So the template for day one is basically Hey, guys, you've probably tried to write your own sales page before you're talking to, you know, you're walking them through all the old things that they know, you've probably done this, you've probably done this, you've probably done this. And if you're here, you probably have had success with that, I noticed that there was a big gap in the market. And so yeah, there's plenty of people that teach you structures and frameworks. But what I'm going to start out with today is this new thing that I created, and it's how to address people that feel like they're a terrible writer. And so people like whoa. So you're feeling that's called Filling the Gap. And you say, before we get to that, I just want to tell you a little bit about myself, very short bio, only in the context of building authority, and how you came up with this framework. So today, the very first thing we want to do is I want to address the common misbelief, that you're a terrible writer. And here's what here's how to flip the switch from thinking you're a terrible writer, to a genius writer, or you could do it the opposite way. I'm going to tell even the most the person who thinks that the worst writer in here and tell you how to use that as your superpower for writing a killer converting sales page. So people are like, what? So I don't so you might not even have to change their belief. You can actually say, being a terrible writer, you haven't actually an advantage over people who think they're good writers. I don't know what I don't know what

Jennie Wright 14:41
actually would be interesting course. No, that's yeah, I like that. Because if they're thinking that they're a terrible writer, and the people that don't the people who don't think they're terrible writers are actually ignorant of the fact that they're terrible.

Alyson Lex 14:51
Yeah, well, yeah, they're not looking for help. They're not looking

Jennie Wright 14:54
at exactly. They're not looking to improve and they're certainly not ready to receive

Alyson Lex 15:00
So, yeah, I really liked this.

Stirling Gardner 15:04
So there's pretty good at this. So there's,

Alyson Lex 15:09
I mean, it's yeah, I can tell you, you've done this once or twice, right?

Stirling Gardner 15:13
Where it's 62. Now. And I love this. This is how my brain works. So for me, this is fun. Nerd alert.

Alyson Lex 15:23
Oh, no, Jenny and I can learn well, and the reason that I said the service provider side, and I probably put you on the spot there, because most people that run challenges, if you will, are those are coaches, experts, people with courses and programs. Yeah. And I think, as service providers, I know just for me, that was kind of a shift in my brain when you were like, well, yeah, the people that don't want to do it are potentially going to hire you. Now that they've seen your framework, it was a little bit like, oh, yeah, not everybody is a DIY er, by nature, just coming to check me out. Is that, so I really liked that. And that's why I gave that service provider example.

Stirling Gardner 16:02
Yeah, I know, plenty of people, we run for their for their high end services. For mine, if we don't get to it, but if you lay out your content, like we're about to do for you, and do all these other things that we'll get to, we have people selling a record so far $7,500 offer right in the challenge without having to go to a sales call. Because you're able to build this trust this credibility, oh, my God, this, like why people don't want to get on sales calls. You don't want to have sales calls. So if the values there, and it's all logically presented, hey, this is the offer, guys. And if that's not right for you, I also have this program that's 2000, whatever the price might be, and it's something that you can do, you know, try as an example. So we're basically going to shift their belief about what their what their perceived and biggest problem is. So I'm a terrible writer. So the lesson of that is going to be, we have to dive deep into this, but like, how are we going to shift that belief? Is it us saying that, like I mentioned, hey, actually, being a terrible writer is your superpower in this present? In this case, like that's a belief shift right there. Or, Hey, I'm going to show you how to take that, from I'm a terrible writer. I'm an amazing writer and shift the belief that way. So it's the belief shift, the aha moment. And then you always want to incorporate three things each day. So the structure is going to be, hey, this is what we're going to teach today. Hey, here's the teaching, hey, we're going to reinforce it with a story about a client or yourself that actually learn that lesson. Because they'll remember the story better than they will the lesson. And then okay, here's your takeaway for the day. And then you have a piece of homework, homework, less than two minutes assignments, where they can implement something that they just taught. So in this case, it might be, I want to, I want you to write down the sentence that says super simple, I want you to write down the sentence that you feel about your, your writing abilities. So people are writing in their little workbook, I think I'm a terrible writer, because in college, I got my first deal on the assignment in freshman year, whatever it is, and then you say, Great, then I want you to write this sentence. That makes me a better writer than a person who got an A in creative writer and isn't going to listen to take notes or whatever the case

Jennie Wright 18:35
might feel. I'm feeling a little called out because I was the creative writer with the English decrees. So thanks for that.

Alyson Lex 18:41
I mean, I was a double major, double major English and psych with a minor in creative writing. So I'm an awesome writer, so that, you know,

Jennie Wright 18:48
oh, I know. We go on this call at all like, no, no.

Stirling Gardner 18:56
Okay, so anyway, so yeah, so they, your biggest problem is, identify their biggest problem, then identify how you shift that belief, teach a lesson around that, tell a story around that. Give them a reason to imprint imprint that in their brain with a super simple. I call it homework, but that brings up anxiety for people because no one likes homework, but just a just a task that cements it, where they can go where they can apply that to themselves. Perfect. And then

Jennie Wright 19:29
for the other day is like day two, day three, day four, etc. What would be like a quick like, because we know now we know what the structure is for the day, the three things that we need to teach, but what else? What would day to be day one was the mindset shift. What's the thing on day two?

Stirling Gardner 19:45
So day two is going to be and you'll say this at the end of day one. You'll say, Guys, and ladies, now that you know being a terrible writer is your superpower. This is the next problem that you're going to run into. And you're in luck, because I'm going to, I'm going to show you how to overcome that tomorrow. So I asked you as the expert, okay. Assuming we've shifted that belief enough, what's literally the first thing that they need to know before they start their sales page? Or start writing your sales page? So let's say it's market research, I don't know what what is,

Alyson Lex 20:25
yeah, it's yeah, we'll pretend it's market research. So then, day two, then would be teaching them how to do market research.

Stirling Gardner 20:32
Here's the number one biggest lever and time here's the most efficient way to do market research. I go to Amazon book reviews, I go to Quora, and I go to Reddit, as an example, I pick out the themes that I see I open a Google Doc, I put those themes in there, I write a summary of those themes. And I, I just realized, Oh, my God, people, these are the top three problems. I'm making this up off the top of my head, because I'm not exactly sales. And they're like, Oh, my God, this makes so much sense. Like, we are marketers, so we know that go do those things. But right, quote, two days ago that, that I was like, I'm gonna mess it up. But there was something about things you take for granted are worth 10,000 to somebody else.

Alyson Lex 21:21
If you're good at or yeah, if it's easy for you, it means you're good at it. Yes. So we'll

Stirling Gardner 21:27
pay for that information. So then you're giving it to them for free in this challenge. So they're like, Oh, my God, I could knock out all the research I need for my sales page in under an hour. That's cool. So your homework is, I want you to go right now to Amazon, or wherever, whatever resource and search in what whatever you're searching for. And in the, I'm going to set up a post in the group, for your aha moment, and your homework to turn in. Just leave a comment with three things that you learned about your, from your market research.

Alyson Lex 22:07
Okay, and then you're gonna tease day three, which is,

Stirling Gardner 22:11
guys, now that you've done your market research. This is the next thing you're going to need to know how to do. It is fill in the blank. Great tomorrow, that's what we're going to handle. Day three, you're saying Hey, guys, hey, awesome writers who think they're terrible. Yesterday, we handled market research. Now that you got that on lock, I want to show you the super simple framework, whatever for for sales page, I don't know what it is. What do you guys know, whatever your expertise is like, Okay, this is step one, what's step two. So you're literally unlocking in a natural, logical way, the things that they need to know. Great, it's the structure, I use the ABC structure, I want to talk about ABC. And let's walk through those things. So your homework is in three sentences. A, B, C, and D and A list out ABC. I don't know. I don't know what the lesson would be. So it's hard for me to tell you what the homework would be. But it's just something reinforcing. And so you say, Gosh, I remember working with Sterling, and we were working on his page, I was helping him with his page. And I remember I showed him this framework. And the thing that stuck out most for him, it was like the big lightbulb moment was when I said hey, when you transition from A to B, make sure that you do this, when you do B to C do this, and he was like, Oh, he called it. You know, that's just like making bread. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Because I was following a recipe. So people like remember, oh, gosh, it makes you know, analogies. Yes.

Alyson Lex 23:57
And then day four,

Stirling Gardner 23:59
day four is I like to do

Jennie Wright 24:04
it since day four, the framework isn't a two isn't a three you're solving another problem. And then Day Four is a framework or is it

Stirling Gardner 24:11
day three? You can Yeah, see, I what I try to help people do is day four, actually lead them into, hey, this is these are this this? Let's just take your copywriting course as an example, guys. We talked about how you now know that you're a genius copywriter because terrible writers are great copywriters. Yesterday we taught you how to do market research. Yeah, we should probably pick something different for day three. So let's just say day three, let's talk about headlines maybe on day three. And so here's all your different possible headlines. Tomorrow on day four. I'm going to walk you through some structure in the simple systems I use to walk people through their structure Because what you're doing is you're opening the door for you to be able to explain the structure of your program, the structure of how you work with people the structure of your course. So on day four, hey, I want to do a wrap up. Day one, we covered this day two, we covered this day three, we covered headlines. And now I'm going to show you how to put all those pieces together into a super simple framework. This is this is the framework that I use, and then I'm going to make available to you guys later. Module One, you don't even have to say Mazel, but the first step is doing this, and then two, and then three, and you're literally walking them through. So what I do is just literally walk people through the system through the templates through the process, the SOPs, and they're like full leash yet, this is crazy. It's all, it's all here for me. So you've provided value, you've shifted their beliefs, you've walked them through what needs to happen. And if you do, this is what I tell people, if you dial in your content, and give value and provide those many transformations, people's next natural and logical step is to enroll in your program. So there's nothing for you to pitch, you're just showing them the program and inviting them to work with you. If you're interested in getting your hands on this course, or in my group coaching or working with me one on one, this is how this is what that looks like. In the meantime, if you have questions about that, I'm open to fielding them. And so it's a simple invitation. I don't I don't believe in pitches. Because it all stems from how well you lay out your days of content. So it should just be stairs, you're just stepping them right into how what it looks like to work with you.

Alyson Lex 26:51
And then do you do a five day because I know five day challenges seems to be the standard. But it sounds like you've got these four days mapped out not five.

Stirling Gardner 27:01
Well, for anybody that doesn't know. Now, challenge seems to be the most popular nomenclature. It can it's called a live launch. It's called a live workshop. You could call it a live bootcamp, a live masterclass. On five day challenge seems to be the most popular. But I know people that do three, two days, sometimes I'll map out a five day challenge with them. And they want to do like an all day bootcamp. But they're still hitting all the things that they need to hit over the course of this time. I said day four, because I usually reserve so you open up invite people to work with you on day four. Day five is I use the messaging Hey, guys, it doesn't matter if you missed all the days before. Tomorrow, I'm going to recap everything I'm also going to ask answer questions about the program. So we just run that as a, it's not really a teaching day, it's a q&a slash refreshing, you know what it looks like to work with you.

Jennie Wright 27:59
So first of all, we've taken a ton of notes for this, and we'll you know, please take a look at the show notes for links and everything that we'll have for Sterling but also for you know how you can find out more about his system because it sounds ideal. And I like this. So talking about challenges. And just to kind of wrap this up and put a pretty bow on it. If I understand correctly, it is how you're presenting the information in those four or five days, which is that biggest needle mover. It's not overloading them that by by creating simple, small, incremental steps, where they are at a mindset shift, that's creating the thing that's going to allow people to be able to sell the programs, products and services with more ease. Do I have that right?

Stirling Gardner 28:43
You want to Yeah, that's exactly right. You want to just teach one specific thing each day, just just one. Because it's all people have time for everybody's got their version and add in short on time, and like, Hey, this is the this is the one next clear step you have to do great. This is the next clear step, they just you want to map you want to map out clear steps for them, and teach them how to do that. That's it.

Alyson Lex 29:14
I love that. It's it's definitely a change in a shift in thinking if you will, from giving them everything I ever learned and thought they might ever want to know, to one small thing that's going to solve one small problem. It is a difficult thing as a really experienced expert to do. But the little framework that you gave, I think is going to make it a lot easier for our listeners. So thank you very much.

Stirling Gardner 29:40
Yeah, you're welcome. It's actually I give my wife a lot of credit for like insights I have because she's so not a marketing person. She's somewhat of a Luddite. But she's now like she's gotten she's been in a couple of challenges herself. too, she's a realtor. So there's different challenges. And she's like, this woman taught way too much. He was just throwing all this stuff at us. And I was like, lost immediately. But I'm trying to hang in there. And I was like, I didn't even know what the offer was.

Jennie Wright 30:14
A good barometer to, like, tell you whether or not it's hard just to call total BS.

Stirling Gardner 30:19
She's a great, I love talking to anybody. When I used to write stories and scripts, and Hollywood was my previous life, I would handle on the people that had nothing to do with entertainment. Because I just want to, I want to hear what people if it's clear, and understandable. And everything makes sense from people who aren't like, reading with specific Yes, notes and angles in mind. So much more helpful. And then she did went on the second challenge. And she, I don't say anything, she knows what I do. But she came back she was this one was so good. She just taught one thing a day. I could handle it. It was easy to follow. It made sense. And I was like, ding ding, ding, ding, there

Jennie Wright 31:04
you go. So yeah, kudos to your wife for helping you figure out and find the process with this. That's awesome. Sterling, thanks so much for doing this with us. We really do appreciate, like, all of the insight you every time I've spoken to you, because we've had a couple of conversations off, you know, in our own little thing. And each time you always provide a ton of value. So just thank you for doing that. You're welcome. Thanks. Absolutely. And where can people find you and get in touch with you?

Stirling Gardner 31:28
Um, I think we should maybe drop I have a free resource called exactly what to teach. It's a content structure tool. So we can just, I'll give you that link. And we can put it in there. It will walk you through how to the outline that we just, you know, literally mapped out in the last 20 minutes or something. Absolutely. That's awesome. Yeah. Cool. Apply it to your your stuff. And then from there, you'll be on my email list. And I'll send out periodic invitations to do a VIP day or hey, do you want to look at the whole system? I know, we talked at the top and we're sort of winding down. But I do want to say that like, one of the things I think is so cool about challenges, the way that we do them is that when you get that we were talking about you know, you don't have to pitch in to help you get the this easy. Yes. I feel like the the biggest challenge with people when they say I hate sales I hate just that I hate sales is that people know they have to do it. But there's so many people teaching variations of sales strategies that just don't feel like you, they don't fit your personality, they don't fit your offer. That that's that's the discomfort is like I'm trying to wedge myself. I'm a 10 sided peg trying to force myself into an eight sided hole. That's a terrible analogy. But do you remember the Game Perfection. So when you can lay out your content and dial everything in, in a way that's clear and understandable and you get to show who you are as a human being. You're naturally selling people without having to do all the like weird tactics and stuff. So like, that's one of the cool things, I think about doing a challenge. On the blaster, a couple of the 10 triggers that are some are inherently built into a champ. Is it okay, I don't know. We tried to return to

Jennie Wright 33:34
this. This is gonna be the bonus part of the episode with Sterling. So yeah.

Alyson Lex 33:40
I'm a little bit like, okay, Sterling. So we talked about the format of a challenge. We talked about some mistakes people were making, and now we're going to do the 10 triggers. So or a couple of them. But maybe, maybe three, otherwise, we're going to overwhelm our listeners like, Okay, I probably do on all my challenges, right?

Stirling Gardner 34:01
I'll do three real quick. So there's 10 triggers that we help people layer into their challenge their psychological triggers, they're completely ethical, the way I tell people is, hey, if you do these things, they will just literally naturally enhance your own gifts. So it's not like there's some weird black magic ninja crap going on. One that I really, really love is called the principle of reciprocity. And that states that it was, there was a social psychologist in 1976, named Philip turns, he sent 600 Christmas cards to strangers, and over 200 mailed them back. And they put together this principle that says, if you if somebody receives something that they perceive to be a value, there is a quote unquote social contract put in place where they feel obligated to give something of value back. So when we talk about the context of a challenge, you're giving tons of value So people there are going to be a percentage of people that feel obligated slash wants to enroll in your program. Oh my god, of course, this is worth that money. So that's where the money and financial exchange happens. I love that. There's also something called the halo principle. A Halo principle says, If I show up and people think that I'm good at thing a, they naturally think I'm also good at thing B, C, and D, which is really weird. But an example of that is our sports. And Edgar was the largest movie star in the world and the 90s. And somebody decided, of course, you would make an amazing governor of California and you're like, This isn't even a political thing. This is this isn't even a question, right? What that doesn't make any sense? Well, that's the halo effect to the extreme. So when you are showing up and giving all of this advice, and insights and teaching people like, Oh, my God, this person knows this, this is amazing. So whether they buy from you now or not, they have in their head that you're an expert in multiple things. So when you put out a new offer, it's a lot easier to sell them into it. If they are ready to buy in three months, because the timing wasn't right, right now, it's going to be an easy, so I love those, we'll stick with those two. But there's one more called multiple touchpoints. Guys, if you have any, any experience in marketing, you know, it takes about 12 They say on average 12 touch points before somebody feels comfortable interacting and engaging. There's nothing else in the marketing world literally, that has as many touch points as is challenged us. You're showing up multiple days, they're gonna see multiple posts from you, they're gonna get multiple emails from you, they're gonna be q&a, like, there's so many more than 12 touch points in in a container of a challenge. You cannot do that anywhere else. So that's three of the 10 and I'll leave it at that.

Jennie Wright 36:51
I love it. Yeah, because it shortens that time between the GET TO KNOW YOU TO THE being able to do the sale. That's why I love that as well. So Sterling, thank you for going above and beyond too much yet again. We really appreciate it. We're gonna have all the details for this episode on our show notes. This is going to be episode 161. So go to system to thrive.com forward slash 161. Get all the details and also Sterling's really great download, we'll make sure the link is there for you. So you can grab that as well. And then go out and get going with a challenge. We love them. Allison loves them Sterling's obviously a pro at them. So let's make this happen. Thanks so much, darling. Thank you very much for being here and we'll talk to you all soon. Take care.

Stirling Gardner 37:29
You're welcome.

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Episode 161 – The Biggest Needle Mover for a Successful Challenge with Stirling Gardner

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