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Sales calls. Discovery calls. Clarity conversations.

It doesn’t matter what you call them – they’re tough! You’re either nervous as all heck because your script feels icky or you have no idea if the person on the other end is even a good fit for you.

And let’s not even TALK about how nervous you get when it’s time to transition to the sale.

Listen to this episode to discover how you can prequalify with ease, ditch the script, and deliver a ton of value while not giving away the farm… and improve your close rate in the process.

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Listen to Nikki’s Podcast, The Sales Maven

Get Your Closing the Sale Ebook – FREE From Nikki! She’ll dive into some expert tips and help you improve your sales rate.

Want to hear more from the Sales Series?
Episode 173 – 6 Steps to Podcast Guest Spots That Boost Your Business
Episode 174 – Leverage LinkedIn like a Pro with Dr. Angela Mulrooney
Episode 176 – Creating and Filling Your High-Ticket Mastermind with Chris Williams
Episode 177 – The Best Salespeople Are the Best Listeners with Katie Bambrick

Or check out the other sales episodes we’ve done…

Alyson Lex 0:03
When you are trying to close a sale, you think, Oh, I'm gonna get I'm on a call, and I'll just close the sale and it ends up being way harder than you think. Because what do you do? Do you follow a script? Are you their friend? How do you sell on a consultation, being transparent, being authentic, and still making the deal happen? Nikki Roche is here with us. And she's the founder of sales Maven, and she is the expert on closing a sale through discovery calls without making it a time suck. And I'm super excited to hear all of her wisdom today. Nikki, thanks for being with us.

Nikki Rausch 0:49
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation with you both.

Alyson Lex 0:55
Okay, so talk to me about discovery calls, sales calls, you know, whatever we call them, they're the same thing. They're a phone call during which you enroll someone in a higher ticket program. Is that right?

Nikki Rausch 1:13
Well, potentially, it could be that yes. I mean, it's usually a one on one conversation between you and a prospective client can happen over the phone can happen over zoom could possibly happen on email. But that's not generally how it happens. You usually are having some back and forth dialogue. And the objective is an I teach a five steps. So just to back up for one second. So I teach a five step process to a sales conversation. And I call it the selling staircase. And the objective of the selling staircase. And the reason I teach this is because there is a structure to getting to the place where you meet somebody, they have some interest, and then you move them through this process, that you get to the place where you exchange dollars for services or product, whatever it is that you're selling, but you can't just meet somebody and be like, hey, you know, you should buy from me, do you want to buy from me? Like we've all been on the receiving end of that?

Jennie Wright 2:07
You mean, that doesn't work? Oh, shucks.

Nikki Rausch 2:11
I know, it feels so gross and horrible. And this is why sales kind of gets a bad rap, right? Is because people try to skip steps. And this is why I teach this five step process. So step three is the discovery. So I'll Is it okay, if I just talk through the first five, I'll just name the five steps. So that will make sense. Okay. So step one is introduction, that's the objective there is to make a powerful first impression that can happen on social media that can happen through your website that can happen from somebody hearing you on a podcast, there's a lot of ways that first impression happens. But you really want to think about what's the kind of impression that you want to make out in the marketplace, so that you attract your ideal clients, repel people who aren't a good fit. So they're not taking up a bunch of time from you, and get people to want to go to next next step, which is step two, creating curiosity. The objective here is to have somebody want to lean in and go like, ooh, tell me more about what you do. Or I wonder if that would be something I would benefit from. So creating curiosity, super important. And once you've done that, oftentimes, the most logical next step is that conversation. So whether you call it a consultation, whether you call it discovery, what sales call, whatever you want to call it, but the objective during this part of the sales conversation is not to sell, which I know sounds a little counterintuitive, but the objective actually is to find out, what's the problem? What's the need, what's the want. And by asking strategic questions, helping the person self identify that you have something they want, you have something they need, you have you have a solution. And then once you've done a well done discovery, we can go deep into discovery, because I love discovery calls. Then you move to step four in the process, which is proposal. Now that sounds like very formal, but I don't mean that you have to actually send a formal proposal, although in certain businesses, you might. But the objective here is that's really when you start selling, that's when you lay out your offer. That's when you make the recommendation. And then step five goes really closely with step four. And that's the close and the objective there is to make sure that you're issuing closed language. Most people don't and because they don't people don't decide to hire them. So that's the five step broken, broken down in the most like basic form.

Jennie Wright 4:31
All on board with that because it sounds more intuitive. I mean, I remember distinctly one of the first sales calls I got on when I started this business. And it was from a sales representative from Infusionsoft trying to sell Okay, way back in the day I didn't even have a list yet nor any income and he was trying to sell me a $500 a month to Infusionsoft membership. Super fun stuff, but his sales tactic didn't follow the his process it was a lot different. And I remember distinctly going, this feels icky. Not knowing exactly why, because again, fresh, brand spankin. But icky. And he had, I think he did step four, super early, step five, really fast. And then flip to step one. I mean, the order is there for a reason. And I think that's an important piece to talk about.

Nikki Rausch 5:26
Yeah, the idea, though, so my background is I have an extensive background in sales. And I also have an extensive background in neuro linguistic programming. And if that's a new term to anybody listening, it's really the study of communication. And so neuro is the way we process information, our brains linguistics is the language piece. And then programming has habits and patterns. So when I combined my sales experience with my NLP experience, what we learn in NLP is that there is a structure to excellence. And you can look at anybody who is getting exceptional results in their life or business in any area of it. And if you really dive in, if you ask the right questions, you will find that there is a structure to their process of how they achieve excellence in their life or business. So I believe in structure, I learned the power of it. And so I know that by teaching a structure to a sales conversation, that it allows for anybody to be successful at sales. So it doesn't matter if you're an introvert or an extrovert, or if you're, you know, whatever, whatever you want to qualify yourself as it's really about having some structure and then really showing up and being authentic, because don't we all feel it when we're in conversation with somebody and it feels like you said, often, it's icky. That's usually because that person is probably trying to sell like somebody else. He's been trained, that this is the process. This is the script. This is this is what you say when and all of these things. And that's why it feels really icky and gross. And he's skipping around on steps to which confuses the clients.

Alyson Lex 7:10
So one, one thing I noticed that wasn't in your five steps that I know that I've heard from other sales experts is kind of that qualification stage to make sure that you're getting on the phone with the right people. And I know that that's got to be part of the process somewhere, right?

Nikki Rausch 7:31
Yeah. That actually happens. Yeah, that's such a great question. So the qualification, for me in the way that I teach this process a lot of times is happening during discovery. Now, there are things that you can put in place, that if you're getting on calls with people who are tire kickers, and that's happening happening over and over again, then you could put some type of a qualifier in the form of an intake form that somebody had to fill out before they get on the call with you. Also, when you are out in the marketplace, marketing yourself, you should also be really attracting your ideal clients and frankly repelling people who are not a good fit. So one of the ways that people are often afraid to make a qualifier is simply by listing pricing on their website. I can't tell you how many times people are like, you know, all coaches tell me never list your price on your website, Nikki because people won't get on phone calls with you. And I was like, well, that's the best way to qualify people is put your pricing on your website so that you don't get a bunch of tire kickers. And I'm really adamant. This is one of those places that I will say I different than most sales coaches. Because the pricing isn't there for you. The pricing is there for them to look at it and go, Oh, yeah, this is in my price range. And I truly don't believe that if people see your pricing on your website, they refuse to get on calls with you. tire kickers well, because they're like, I would never pay that to work with Nagy, so there's no way I'm gonna get on a call with her. Great, I don't ever want to get on a call with somebody who's like, I would never pay for sales coaching. Perfect. Don't waste my time or yours by getting on a call. So there's lots of ways to qualify people in the market. But the thing that I think sometimes people are afraid to get on the Discovery call and so they want to put up all these qualifiers to almost like it's a foregone conclusion that I'm going to close the sale. But really, when you get on a call with somebody, it's a great opportunity to build rapport. It's a great opportunity to build know like and trust so I don't want you to be afraid to get on live interactions with people because that is how you earn business.

Alyson Lex 9:48
Want to back up to the whole price thing. Okay, because you are different than most people and frankly, I am not At a full price giver, I am an expectation setter. Okay? So the way that I do that, and I want to just kind of get your your thoughts and see if we're really different, or maybe we're in line is I will say, all of my prices have come in them. Like, I set the expectation, I'm not cheap. Am I the most expensive out there? Nope. But I'm definitely not the cheapest. And that's because a lot of times it takes that one on one interaction, that little bit of consultative stuff that you're probably going to tell me I'm doing wrong in a sales call. It takes that to build enough trust in the value and what I have to offer in order to command the prices that I do. Does that make sense? Am I Am I saying that in a way that? Well, you won't. Okay. So,

Nikki Rausch 11:06
yeah, I mean, here's the thing is, if it's working for you keep doing it, right? If you're not getting qualified leads, or if you're not getting the kind of leads that you want, then it's time to do something else. Right. So the thing that I would caution you about is, I love that you give this like I have commas and off my pricing. That's a nice qualifier. But really, what I'd rather you say is give a range. Because then people can decide because truly, if somebody knew that, you, you know, you could say, comma, okay, well, that's $1,000. But really, if it's $10,000, that's a very different conversation. And by not having pricing available in the marketplace, and I'm not saying you have to have every price on your website, you certainly don't. But by having some pricing and allowing people to qualify, the if you don't do this, the first and most common thing people are now stressed about when they get on a call with you is how much is it? Am I going to be embarrassed when I have to tell Allison, I can't afford her pricing. So you're putting them in a position now of having to worry about price during that conversation with you. And I personally think that's a mistake. I want to create safety, I want them to feel really good about the conversation that we're having. I want them to know that hey, what you get, we're what you see is what you get with me. I'm not trying to hide things I'm not trying to manipulate I'm not trying to convince, and in my philosophy around sales is sales isn't something you do to people, it's something you do with. So I'm not ashamed of my pricing. And I'm not the least expensive sales coach out there either. But the fact of the matter is, I'm very, very good what I do, my clients make money at the things that we do. So I'm not afraid to just say this is the pricing. Now if they want to negotiate it, that's that's on them. But I rarely get people who get on calls with me. And they're like, I have no idea how much you charge. Because if they're really worried about price, they've already looked at my website. And if they're not worried about price, and they get on the call with me, it was never about price to begin with. So we'll go over price at some point when they're ready to say yes and hire me. But I don't bring that into the conversation. Because that's not the that's not what I'm doing. I'm establishing do they have a need? And do I have a solution for them?

Jennie Wright 13:29
Okay, I'm really enjoying this conversation about the pricing thing, I want to move into a little bit more of a discovery call thing, the last thing I want to ask and I do want to ask you a question about it. So I'm actually redoing my website. And I'm thinking because there's a range of prices that I work within of saying, you know, if you want to do X with me starting at because there's so many variables in the with Alice and I both do Done For You services. So there's variables, right. So I want to ask you, does that seem like a good? What's the right word is that seemed like a good middle ground.

Nikki Rausch 14:13
The thing about saying starting at, and then when you list a price, you're actually anchoring the lower price. And by anchoring the lower price than when you give a higher price. People are like, oh, like, Okay, I wanted the lower price. So I would still recommend for you that genuine you put pricing on your website that you have prices range between this and this. And I honestly don't care if you say $5 and $100,000, I would want you to put some kind of a qualifier that basically a package, you know, a typical package runs this or the most popular package is around, you know, or is between. So let's say you say between $5.10 1000 Just to be more realistic. And you could say a typical package. runs are, you know, the most popular package, for instance, runs between seven and 8000. So now I've anchored this. So if you come in with a package, that's five grand people are gonna go like, Whoa, I got a deal from Jenny. And if you come in with something that's at 500, they're like, Okay, I can see why cuz she's getting this extra thing for me or whatever that is. So when you so be careful about starting at, it's better than nothing. I will say that it's better than I don't put my pricing on my website. But don't necessarily wait a week or the lower price.

Jennie Wright 15:33
Okay, I get it. I'm, you're you're slowly converting me over from one to the other. Right. I also, I mean, and this is probably why this is why this podcast is so fun to

Alyson Lex 15:42
do. Gosh, I learned so much.

Jennie Wright 15:45
Yeah, exactly. We learn so much. And we have the ability. I mean, quite honestly, this is a very selfish podcast. We absolutely use it for our own devices. But it's a wonderful opportunity for us to say it's for you, audience, when really it's like, Dude, we change.

Alyson Lex 16:00
So and we get to meet and talk to, like, super smart Graebel.

Jennie Wright 16:04
Yeah, it's like having a mastermind on steroids. We love it. I want to transition like I said earlier over to back over to discovery calls and the close. Okay. So getting to the close, being able to close somebody into your program, product or service is really daunting. And we find that people, me included in the past and Allison actually watched it happen once on a discovery call, where we're talking about how we can help somebody and how we can serve them. And then the transition from the here's how I can help you and into the sale. can feel very uncomfortable. Okay, so I'd love to get your expert advice on how do you get comfortable in transitioning from Oh, it sounds like, you know, Oh, it sounds like you're experiencing XYZ in your business. And I'm sure that's really difficult for you. And it sounds really, you know, frustrating and things like that. And, you know, for this is my own personal script, usually I'll see I'll say something like, it's, it sounds really challenging for you, I do have something that I think can help. Would you like me to share what that might be with you? That's my personal transition. Yeah, what's the right way to be transitioning into the sale for people who are uncomfortable?

Nikki Rausch 17:19
So you're, I think you heard like, 95% there because you are asking a question because most people in this they think selling is talking at but it's actually talking with, and when you talk with you ask questions. So I don't believe in just like saying, oh, you know, it sounds like that's really hard for you, you should really, you know, consider this package. Here it is blah, blah, blah. That's like, you kind of skipped some steps there a little bit. So what you did is you asked a question, now, I want you to have a powerful way to transition for them. So you're going to ask permission before you start selling, which is what you're doing. Now. I love asking permission. But I will see if you like this. So you tell me Jenny, if you're like not like that at all, we'll come up with something else. But I think it's important to say to them, you know, based on what you've shared, I do have a recommendation of a way that's going to solve this or can help you get the solution that you're looking for. Would you like to hear more about that? So you're saying like, I've got a solution? And I'll give it to you? Do you want to hear

Jennie Wright 18:24
about it? Absolutely. I love that. Yeah,

Nikki Rausch 18:27
it's just a permission. Yep. Yeah. And I do that through a call. Now you're Yeah. So now you're in the place where really, in the discovery, when now you've moved to step four, really stand in your like authentic power, your credibility, show up as your full self, the expert that you are, and recommend what the person needs, not even what you think they can afford, unless they've been really, really clear about exact pricing, which most people aren't. So recommend what you know, is going to solve their problem. And then let them say yes, no, I have a question or Gosh, outside of my price range, let them have a response. don't anticipate what their response is going to be. But really stand in that place of credibility and make that recommendation and make it from a place of like, this is for you. Because it really is for them. It's not about you. It's not about like, Hey, I'm just here to try to get as much money as you as I can, because that feels disgusting. And that's not how we sell.

Alyson Lex 19:31
How do we and this is my personal problem. So I second the super selfish podcast. How do we keep from going all the way in the other direction where we're like, let me give you all the answers right now.

Nikki Rausch 19:44
Ah, I love this. Yes,

Jennie Wright 19:46
so many people do that.

Nikki Rausch 19:49
I feel like I interrupted you though. Alison. What was Was there more to that?

Alyson Lex 19:53
No, that was okay. That was it. Because that's what I do. I was trying to not talk as much here as I talk on sales calls

Nikki Rausch 20:02
Okay, so one of the things that is really important is for you to really stand in your credibility and your authority and your expertise. One of the ways that we can get ourselves in trouble is selling is that we think we have to convince people that we're really good at what we do. So we start coaching on those discovery calls into huge mistake. And here's why. Because you know how good you are, you already have this expertise, but the person that you're talking to, they don't know all that, you know. So I was, this is the analogy I was give is, imagine behind you are all your resources, all your expertise, all the things that you bring to the table when a client hires you, that makes you so good at what you do. And imagine that all those resources are like grains of sand, and it makes up this big, beautiful beach behind you. That's all that Alison brings to the conversation, okay. And you go into a sales conversation or a discovery and you start coaching, you start offering solutions, you know that what you're giving them in that in that moment is like one grain of sand, because you've got this big, beautiful beach behind you, but they don't know what you know. So they think that grain of sand is the beach. And now they don't think they need to hire you because they think you just gave them the answer. But you also know that they're not going to get to where they want to go with one grain of sand, they got to have access to all the resources on that beach. So it's a mistake to coach during discovery calls. It's a mistake to try to convince people that you're really really good at what you do. You can do that you can establish your credibility by asking questions that lead people down a path to hiring you. So your discovery questions should plant seeds. Okay. So when you think about what you do, you know, one of the questions that I ask in a discovery process is, do you know how to create curiosity when you're talking about your, your product or services? Guess why I asked that question. Because I teach how to create curiosity. I don't tell people because you don't know how to create curiosity. You're you're losing sales. And here's how you create curiosity. You'll you'll learn that from me when you hire me. Right? So be really careful and ask questions that lead people down this path to hiring you plant seeds with your questions. You know, another question I ask is, do you how often do you tell stories when you are on a in a sales conversation? And people are like, what, what now? Well, guess what? I also teach storytelling for sales. So all of these things lead people down this path to going like, oh, I don't know how to tell stories. I don't know how to create curiosity. I'm not closing, you know, 50% of my calls or more. So I should probably work with Nikki because she's going to help me get there. But I'm not giving them any how on that call. You get that? And they'll ask for it too, frankly, because people call me all the time. Like, can I just pick your brain? Yes, you can I have a strategy session for that. Here's the link, you can actually pay right there on the on the link, you have to pay to get that service?

Jennie Wright 23:05
Absolutely.

Alyson Lex 23:08
Does this change for service providers? So if I'm selling copywriting, my copy packages, I know that they we could talk on the phone for two hours, and they wouldn't be able to write copy like I can. And they know that too. So does that consultation aspect change when you're talking to service versus a program?

Nikki Rausch 23:35
No, not at all. I don't think as a matter of fact, I'm gonna say even more so as a service provider should not be coaching. Now, there's lots of ways for people to get like little nuggets. I'm not afraid of giving stuff away for free. So just want to be really clear about that. But I give away free stuff on my podcast, right? Like, if you want to hear about overcoming objections, you can go listen to the podcast that I just launched last week, where I give three ways to overcome like, overcome the No, right. But I don't need to give that specific to each person. That is what you pay for. So when you're writing copy, you can put out really great stuff. As a matter of fact, I just saw a copywriter recently put out something on LinkedIn. And she was talking about how to change up wording right. And she was like, here's a common word that people use. But if you use this other word, gosh, it sounds much more powerful. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's awesome. So now I'm super interested in her as a copywriter, because I was like, I don't know that stuff. So obviously, she can write better than I can write. So that that attracts me to her. That's free stuff that she put out onto LinkedIn. But now if I get on a call with her and she starts reviewing my copy and starts telling me how to change it, why would I need to hire her? She just gave me all the answers. Now of course, there's, you know, my brains a little bit smarter than that knows that Like if I can't write my own copy. So it's really, really important that you don't give away your services, let them pay for it, I'll send because they'll value it more.

Alyson Lex 25:12
Absolutely, I've really liked the way that you're saying this. And, you know, I'm one of those people, and you said it earlier if it's working for you don't change it. And so I'm always a little hesitant to, to change, because I do have a really high close rate. And I, you know, I do have a really good process that I've built over 15 years, you get it right. But I think that asking some of these questions, one helps me streamline my own self, and reduce how much because it is mental work on my part, when I'm sitting here coaching somebody on a discovery call, or brainstorming or just throwing a ton of information, that's a little brain drain, right. And so I'm wondering how I can begin to pull that back and still feel good about the calls that I'm having, because I love to provide that value, I'd love to like you give stuff away. And I, I genuinely appreciate that one on one time with people. So it's maybe a little bit of a good balance, which I'm admittedly not very good with.

Nikki Rausch 26:23
You know, one of the so I don't know if you'll like this idea or not. But this is something I used to do quite often is because I love to coach, so I can coach all day long. But you could just sit and ask me questions, and I would be so happy. I'm such in my happy spot. When people are asking me sales questions, and I can guess it comes easy to me now I've been I've been doing it now for over 30 years. So sales comes easy to me. I love talking about sales. But one of the things that I know is it doesn't serve people for me to just give, give, give, give give doesn't serve my business, it doesn't really help people get the results they want. Because people rarely pay attention to things they don't pay for. So they might go like, Oh, that's really good in the moment. But will they make a change, they'll make a change for sure when they pay me money. Because now there's like real skin in the game. They're like, totally in. So they're gonna get I always say implementers get results, my clients get results because they implement, and they implement because they pay me good money. They're not going to just go like, ah, it was it was interesting. It was good. It was like, No, I paid money for this, I'm gonna do something with it. And then I'm gonna get results. Okay. So instead, again, you ask questions. So for a long time, I used to do selling strength assessments. So this was an assessment where I was asking people very specific questions. So even if they didn't hire me at the end, they still learn something about themselves. But I wasn't coaching. So you could create a copy assessment for you. Maybe Allison, if you wanted that, ask them these really great questions that gets them thinking about their copy or get them thinking about what would really make a difference for them. So even if they decide not to work with you or not to hire you, they're still going to leave with some value some new recognition about themselves. But you didn't give any of your services away for free.

Jennie Wright 28:14
That would be good. And I know Allison is taking notes right now because she got a light bulb idea from what you said, make you which is great.

Alyson Lex 28:20
So I mean, after this, I might ask you to tell me more about what that might look like, as I write it here on my post it note but hashtag selfish podcast?

Jennie Wright 28:30
Exactly. I think that's gonna have to be a thing. So what are your sort of final thoughts around sales that people should know, as they're, you know, kind of taking away from this podcast? What is something that people can start doing right away?

Nikki Rausch 28:42
Well, one thing you can do right away is because we're talking about discovery, there's a piece that I want to make sure that you do at the very beginning of your discovery calls, it's super important that you create safety at the beginning of your discovery calls, because you might be nervous about like wanting to earn their business, but they might be nervous about talking to you because they see you as an expert. So you got to put them at ease. And one of the ways that you can create safety and lead the conversation is you pre frame at the very beginning of the call. This is a very missed up in the discovery. And yet every time people tell me their discovery calls are going off the rails. And I'll ask them, like, what's your pre frame? And they're like, I don't have a pre frame. Okay, well, let's put a pre frame in place because it's gonna make a difference. So an example of a pre frame, there's a couple of things you're going to do, you're going to start by saying, you know, something, like, you're going to build some report the very beginning in the first, you know, minute or two, and then you're going to say, now, thank you so much for taking this time to meet with me today. We're scheduled to chat for about and then you insert the amount of time 20 minutes does that still work for you? So we're gonna get that like, yes, it works or if they're like, actually only have 15 We want to know that because I don't want them worried about like, oh my gosh, should I tell her now? Should I tell her later, like, Oh, I'm gonna run over. So check to make sure that still works. And then you're gonna say I now in order to make this call meaningful and productive for you, so I'm setting the stage. This is about you, not me, in order to make this meaningful and productive for you, is it okay if I start with a couple quick questions, because now I'm telling them what I'm going to do next. So that they feel calm, cool and collected, because now they're ready for questions. And if they don't say yes to that, well, then Okay, so we know they're not they're not down for that. But most people, if you frame it that way, are like, yeah, go ahead. But if you just don't have a pre frame, and you're like, Oh, thanks for taking time to chat with me today. How'd you hear about me? All right. Well, tell me a little bit about what's going on for you. If you start with that, they could say so you know, when I was five, this thing happened. And now you're in story. And story is time sock, little so pre frame. Yeah. So pre frame at the start of your calls, because it will set the stage. It's kind of like it smooths the waters, a calms the waters in the other person. And now we can have a real conversation. And we're doing it through questions. I'm asking some questions, I'm gonna give you opportunity to ask questions. And that's how the conversation is going to go, that's gonna make sure we stay on track, we stay on time. And it gives me an opportunity to, at some point lay out a way for us to work together, should I decide you're a good fit for my business, and you decide I'm a good fit for you.

Jennie Wright 31:25
So pre frame, pre frame, I think is essential. And it's key. And I think that's one of the best takeaways from this particular episode. I think it's a stellar opportunity. And that is a hard lesson that I had to figure out was the briefing very hard lesson I had to figure out, I just want to say thanks for being with us and explaining all of this, we think you're awesome. We're really enjoying having you on can you just share quickly, where people can connect with you how they can find you, which where we'll be able to English would be a good way to speak. Where can people connect with you to learn more value?

Nikki Rausch 32:03
Well, the easiest way is I'm going to wrap it around a gift for your listeners if that's okay, so I have an e book, it's called closing the sale. And it really talks through kind of once you got to that discovery, the proposal and the close. So it's all about boosting your confidence during that conversation. So you can get that by going to your sales Maven. And Maven is Ma v n.com. Forward slash System to THRIVE. So that's all one word System to THRIVE. That's for your audience. And that will be the best way for us to connect.

Alyson Lex 32:34
That is awesome. And what we're going to do is go ahead and put that link as well as any other link we can find through our light stalking on our show notes page. So be sure to head to System to THRIVE att.com This is episode 175. And you'll be able to go ahead and connect with Nikki and grab that ebook. I'm gonna go download it right now too. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do go ahead. Give us a review. Give us a rating. Tell us how much you love Nikki, and we'll see you on the next episode.