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What We Talk About

There’s a perfect storm of business owners who don’t know how to run a business, negative mindset around money, coaches teaching how to pay as little as possible, and a lack of transparency about pay…

And all this is adding up to business owners struggling to build teams withOUT the financial resources they need to do it well.

And when you’re not paying your team well… they’re talking about it. What’s that doing to your business?

In this episode, we’ll talk about:

– How to know whether you’re ready to hire a team member in the first place
– What fair compensation really looks like
– How to build the budget for your team the right way
– The best way to react when a proposal is simply out of reach
– And much more! 


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Listen to Tara’s Podcast – The Bold Money Revolution

Head to  to get your free revenue calculator which will tell you how much you need to pay yourself AND how much revenue you need in your business to pay yourself that amount (holy awesome freebie!)

To hear Tara talk MORE about money – check out https://systemtothrive/164 or Episode 164 on your favorite podcast platform.

Ellen Pompeo, Gina Rodriguez, Gabrielle Union, Emma Roberts for Women in Television 2018

Check out the entire library of mindset episodes here.

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:03
About a year, year and a half ago, I was approached by a pretty well known person who needed somebody to create a whole lot of stuff for his business. I'm talking like 20 hours a week. And I very thoughtfully went through everything he was looking for, and put together some plans and some suggestions to improve what he was already doing. And I gave him my price. And their counteroffer was 10% of that. I obviously said, no, yeah. But it really brings up this idea of what does it mean to have a team that you pay? Well, what does it mean to have a team that you treat well, and how should you be building and growing and leveraging your team to actually help you grow your business? So we have Taryn Newman back and she was with us last year talking about some money stuff, we had a blast. And she's here again to talk about this really important thing. So Tara, thanks for being back with us.

Tara Newman 1:07
Thanks for having me back. Allison and Jenny, I was like, when you said I was expecting the Whoa. I know, as it took my breath, like I was expecting you to say, like, offered me 10%. Like, like a 10 asked me to discount at 10% I wasn't expecting you to say 10% of what the proposal was?

Alyson Lex 1:26
Yes, they they had a monthly rate. That was 10% of my proposed monthly rate based on the based on the actual work that they needed. And I had already included a bunch of bundle type discounts. She just counted

Jennie Wright 1:43
it heavily. To make bundles. It was it was a ridiculous thing. We I listen, I actually went over it together. And she's like, Could I like? Could you though, you know, what's the what's the point? And I think there's, there's a lot to be said, and and the same situation happened to me. Probably about a year before, I was working with a seven figure coach, and I was on a per project basis. And they wanted to bring me on as a more of a permanent fixture. But they wanted to pay me like 20 bucks an hour. I've been like, Oh my God, I've been doing this for 10 years, guys.

Tara Newman 2:20
I know, I've heard I've heard these stories. I truly I have truly heard so many of them. Because the reality is, is when you do things like that your team talks, right? When you don't treat your team? Well. They talk and so. And not talking like a gossip way, but talk in like a how to why, you know, how do I deal with this? How do I you know, have these conversations, how do I continue with this work? This doesn't feel ethical, it doesn't feel fair. That's kind of when I say when I say they talk, that's really what I mean, when I say they talk. So this is not an uncommon and uncommon thing in the online business space. And I almost think as somebody who has worked in traditional business and online business, I almost think it's worse in online business than it is in the traditional workspace. And that's just anecdotal. That's just me like boots on the ground research. I don't have any hard data to prove that. But

Jennie Wright 3:29
I just read an article about a week ago that had this whole comparison in it. And it was, yeah, it was on, I think it was on medium. And it was a whole article where the person said, look, if I spent 10 years honing my craft or 15 years honing my craft, I've taken multiple courses, I've done this, that and the other to achieve my level of, you know, whatever I'm able to do, I would be renumerated in a corporate position at a different level, I would that would be all taken into account, my education and my work experience would be taken to account. And I wouldn't be starting at ground level, but in the online and we wouldn't expect those people to come in and just you know, work for free. But in the online space. I also and I've had this multiple times where somebody has said, Hey, why don't you show me an exhibit? Why don't you create an example of your writing based on my sales page or something like that, you know, completely worked for free to kind of earn your spot. And that doesn't work. It's it's really, it really feels like it's insulting personally. It's

Alyson Lex 4:35
offensive. Yes,

Tara Newman 4:36
it is offensive, it's predatory and violent. Additionally,

Jennie Wright 4:41
I agree with you completely. And additionally think about the composition of who works in the online environment. Women more so women more so mothers more so people, you know in in countries or developing countries as well that are trying to fill those gaps. We don't have all the data guys we're not we're not we don't have all the data that puts

Alyson Lex 5:02
a lot of people who side hustle to try and get out of bad financial situations, it's people who are eager to make a better life for themselves, their family, their community. And so they end up in situations where that predatory behavior allows them to be more easily taken advantage of. And when I was first starting out, that was me, I was in a situation where I needed money. And so I allowed myself to be treated a certain way. You know, doormat, because I needed it, that 500 bucks was make or break, you know, that was half of rent money at that time. So, it's, it's very frustrating when we're told to know your worth, and charge your worth, but then not be paid or worth, or offered our worth. And so,

Tara Newman 6:01
you know, when the same coaches that I use verbally, are the ones out there telling you to raise your prices? Yeah, raise your prices and quote unquote, own your worth, charge your worth, or whatever? Um, I think it's, I think it's actually a perfect storm of things that are happening. So I said it's predatory and violent, it was like, Whoa, that's like a bold statement. And and it is, and I'm also at the same time, I'm not sure everybody realizes how they're colluding with that. So I think we have a perfect storm. And I want to run you by this a couple of things that I was jotting down as you were talking and, like, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. So first of all, we have a lot of people running businesses who don't actually know how to run businesses.

Then we have it's, it's to a lot of degree, this is a startup culture, and a startup environment. And as as much as people don't know how to run a business, they don't know how to run a startup. And I think there's like a handful people who are maybe a handful, maybe two handfuls of people who find the internet and just fall in love with the greed and the grift. That is, is in the online space. And they don't see people as people they say, see people as dollar signs either one way or another whether it's through sales or through capture human capital. And I think then what happens is we have people who are learning from people who don't know I always see this in the copywriting space where somebody is teaching NLP. Yeah, in copywriting, but they don't say they're teaching NLP and copywriting. So then we have a whole bunch of people who have NLP in their copywriting, but don't know it. Right. So it's like kind of that thing. And then we have the will, someone's going to accept that level of pay. And there's a lack of regulation, transparency and parity when it comes to pay. And I remember a while ago, and this is just like, I don't have the link. I'm so sorry. But there was this video with Gabrielle Union. And was Ellen Pompeo, she's the woman from Grey's Anatomy. And I think there was like one other person. And you were basically talking about how, in in the in that space, like if somebody doesn't take that role, like the cheap role that they offer the women and they offer to them with, like, you know what, there's going to be exposure, and this is going to be good for your career. And like, How many times have we heard that in the online space, too, right.

Jennie Wright 8:55
Who else was in the video? Ellen Pompeo, and I can't

Tara Newman 8:58
remember who else was in the video? It was Gabrielle Union. Ellen Pompeo. I mean, it was

Jennie Wright 9:05
okay. I'm gonna grab that link. I got it. I found it.

Tara Newman 9:08
Yeah. And they were talking about how when the other person when there's like, a lack of transparency that this is happening. And like, I'm just gonna give the example of like, Ellen Pompeo is just like, Okay, I'll, I'll take that role for for this amount. Meanwhile, they don't realize that she didn't realize that Gabrielle Union was like, You need to pay me more. Right. And so by by talking about this, and having transparency here, we can all uplift each other and really start to take a stand for these things. But if we don't talk about them, then they keep happening. And of course, there's always the person who needs to put food on the table and things like that, right. Like, I don't want to discount that either. But for me, I think that's really where a lot of this is. It's coming from predominantly, it's people who do not know how to run businesses, teaching other people how to run businesses.

Alyson Lex 10:12
I completely agree. I think I mean, you're right. It's absolutely a perfect storm. And I think that there is. Also, there's a mindset part of business owners, right? Like, well, if I'm gonna pay that much, I might as well just do it myself. And maybe a scarcity mindset when it comes to money. And not looking at the ROI, not just on the actual thing, right, like when I write a sales page, there's attributable ROI. But if somebody writes a blog post for me, is there attributable ROI? Not as directly? But they're not looking at the time aspect? Okay, so let me back up. I am currently, at the time of this recording, looking for someone to help me turn some of my podcast guest appearances into valuable blog content. Do I want to pay a million dollars? No. But will I pay a reasonable amount based on what that person I'm asking them to tell me what's reasonable to them? Because otherwise, it's not going to happen. Right, like it's a time thing, I'm not going to do it. So I might as well pay enough to get it done well, and have it done. But there's a lot of I just won't get it done then. So myself.

Tara Newman 11:48
So this is right, this goes back to then they don't know how to run a business. If this is about if this is about scarcity, and miners will do it myself and, and all those other things, then they don't know how to run a business, they don't have the mindset of a business owner. And that's problematic for everyone themselves the most. We have a lot of people right now who think they can run businesses or who think they can do this. And they just have never really developed the skill set, or the mindset, or the resiliency, the nervous system regulation, like all the things that goes into doing this. And then on the other hand, we have pricing, ala web celeb pricing, where we just have like, people, again, not knowing how to run a business, pricing things, I want to work with two people a year and make a million dollars. So my packages are $500,000. apiece. And and I'm an I'm a VA I don't know, I never write a blog post writer, like whatever that like is not That's not okay. No. Right. And that's, that's the other side of this. So I think to Allison's point, it takes it takes a level of discernment conversation and nuance to say, this is the job I need done. This is the budget that I have to do the job. This is what I think is is reasonable to get the job done. Now I'm going to talk to people and see who can who can reasonably achieve this job in the reasonable budget that I have. And it's not about then beating somebody down for their price. It's about saying I really appreciate that this is the price for what you're charging. That's not in my budget right now. And having an honest conversation, instead of coming back and shaming somebody for their pricing or making them take feel pressured to take less or, you know, with the nonsense around this will get you exposure or any

Alyson Lex 14:08
of those other exposure does not pay my mortgage,

Tara Newman 14:11
correct, likes exposure, downloads, none of that puts food on your table.

Alyson Lex 14:15
It does not, it does not buy everything my child needs.

Tara Newman 14:20
And then you can say and then Allison can say, Wow, I was really off because the five people that I spoke to all came in around this price point. And let me go back and reevaluate the importance of this to my business and the impact that it's going to have and then decide whether or not I'm going to do it.

Jennie Wright 14:40
There's a level of mindset. Sorry, go ahead, Alison.

Alyson Lex 14:42
No, go ahead.

Jennie Wright 14:43
I just didn't say there's a level of there's a level of having a mindset that is lacking. I find or potentially lacking. I don't want to generalize. So if you see like I've seen this online where somebody has said I posted a job up for a tech VA and I can't believe that everybody's Coming in at 40 to $55 an hour as an example, I was attacked VA, just as an FYI. And somebody can't believe these prices, these people are trying to swindle me. I mean, it's just a simple job, how long is it actually going to take? This shouldn't take, you know, I, this shouldn't cost more than $15 An hour $15 An hour is not a living wage. In North America in, you know, other areas of the world. It's not a living wage in some areas of the world. Absolutely, I understand that it is, but in most areas of the world, it is not a living wage, the amount of hours that you would need to receive and I love these job posts, where it's like, North American person wanted only, you know, Eastern Standard Time fluent in English, you know, must be available from eight until five, etc, etc, Monday through Friday, blah, blah, you know, offering 1490 An hour or something like that. That is, that is ludicrous. To me, it is completely ludicrous. And I've I've seen the fight for jobs to get that. But I've seen the entrepreneur say, this shouldn't be that hard people and I shouldn't have to pay this much to get it done. And that's the mindset that we're fighting right now. And they're being taught those people are like you were saying earlier, those people are being taught that that is okay.

Tara Newman 16:19
I think too, that we are teaching people to weigh over spend on team and things that at their level of business, maybe they should be doing themselves. Right. So for example, you know, I was looking around for tech VAs for a while, couldn't really find anybody to be honest. Like I just like I couldn't find anyone who it wasn't even the price, it was like I was having it was taking me a lot of time to find the person. And I don't typically I'm just gonna say it I don't typically like hiring in, in the online online space, okay, are things because they, we say we want to be this and then we change our minds. And now we want to be this and next thing you know, you want like your hands in my business strategy, because you want to be an OBM or be it and it's like fine, but that's not what I hired you for. And that's not what I need. And that's not the agreement that we had. And like anyone showing up, it's hard to sometimes manage. So there were a lot of reasons why I actually wound up not hiring a tech VA. And very little of it had to do with the with the price other than to say I'm like, maybe this isn't what I need right now maybe what I need is I need to understand better how to use the tech that I am running an entire business on because it's at this time 2019. And now it's you know, this is airing and 2023 being a tech phobe is no longer an option. If you're running a business that's pretty much fully remote and digital. And so I was like, okay, then at least let me understand what I am outsourcing. So I can value it was I'm having a hard time valuing it and I don't understand it. And so I think there's lots of ways that you can look at some of this stuff as a business owner, that doesn't do harm. on a mass scale to other people.

Alyson Lex 18:38
I really like what you said, because I feel like sometimes people are like, oh, I need a VA who can do bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla and like the list of things is 30 pages long. And then there's the shocked Pikachu face when they come in at $60 an hour when really what you need is a one project for multiple different people. And the way that I have my stuff set up is I have my VA who handles ongoing stuff. And he's part time right now I'd love to bring him full time. I got to get some stuff together on my end, organizational wise before I can make that. But then I just posted I'm looking for this writer, It's project based. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hire you like as a part time or full time employee. When I need graphics done. I have someone that I contact for that. When I need videos edited, I have someone I contact for that they're not on my payroll. But I do consider them on my team because we've spent that time together, figuring out the right pricing and building a working relationship and, and setting things up. So they're my team, even if they're not on my payroll and I'm happy to train you up and have you charge the next person more pleased. That sounds great. You know, so you've done all was need to be a payroll expense type of thing.

Tara Newman 20:03
And I always think like every sign this outsource all the things kick, if you don't like it if it's not your zone of genius, if it's, you know, drains your energy, and I get that like I am, we should be looking at those things, either deleting them and just not doing them and not even delegating them. Or, you know, do they need to be done to you? And can you do them? Do you really need to outsource them, but we have people who are just in this team being taught to outsource everything. And so they have such few dollars to spread around? It's like, Well, how am I supposed to have the graphics person, the podcast person, the social media person, the copywriting person, and this person and that person, and it's like, you're not, you're supposed to learn all of those things. So you can do them because that is what it means to be a business owner. And I think that when we start to talk about and I have been guilty of this in the past myself, Is this, like, you know, marketing around being a CEO, being the CEO of your business? No, you're not a CEO, you're a business owner. A CEO is a very, very different role than a small business owner, a CEO has a C suite behind them. And like, while we're on this whole, like be a CEO stuff, like what kind of CEO, the founder CEO, the turnaround CEO, the growth CEO, because all the CEOs, right now were being fired, because they were the growth CEOs. Now they need the wartime CEO to step in, and they need to turn the ship, right. So and we can't fire ourselves. So. So we're wearing a lot of hats, and we have to acquire a tremendous amount of skill. And I'm coming increasingly more convinced that the number one competency, you all have me on a tear right now, sorry, but the number one competency that small business owners need is to be able to be an agile learner, like that needs to be a strength. Because if you can't learn, my husband said to me the other day, because I was complaining about stuffs. And he said to me, so let me get this straight. You're dealing with people, not clients per se, right? But these are typically like, the people who like to consume the content or whatever, or whatever. They want to acquire the skill, but they don't want to learn this skill. So they think that through access, they're going to develop competency in a skill by osmosis. And I'm like, Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

Alyson Lex 22:56
Well, I would like to lose the weight, but I don't want to stop eating pizza. So, you know, that's my mom always used to say, how does it feel to one? Right, and I think it's true, it's very true, we want to hire to replace something we don't know. And there are some things that, look, it's Google Analytics is figuring out like the deep, deep, deep, detailed stuff of Google Analytics, that is never going to be my jam ever. I'm just gonna put that one out in the world. So it would make sense for me to hire someone to set up all the deep stuff, and then spend an hour showing me how to manage it. Give me a dashboard. I love paying people who are experts in their field to train me. I hired I'm gonna pull this into like real life, not just business. I needed a new faucet installed in my kitchen. And I had no I had no idea how to do it. And I did not trust myself, especially with plumbing to just rely on YouTube. So I called a plumber and I said, Hey, I would like to pay you to install a faucet. But what I'd actually like to have happen is I install it and you teach me and he thought it was weird, but he didn't know I know how to install a faucet.

Jennie Wright 24:22
I like the fact that when you said you got on the phone, you did this, which tells me when you were born just Oh,

Alyson Lex 24:27
I know. I did the finger and thumb. The phone thing and I didn't even think about it that just when you say I'm talking on the phone, you just do like the hang 10 Oh my gosh, that's probably all too right. I'm so not cool. Coil. Oh, yeah. stuck to the kitchen wall. You just

Jennie Wright 24:43
can't I just saw that. I was like, yeah, it was my cell phone age, right.

Alyson Lex 24:48
And he trained me how to install a faucet. And now I know how to do that for my home. Whether or not I can afford to pay someone to do it for me. It's a skill that I now have and have added to my collection of random skills jesting, just in case what if my false it breaks at 3am on a Saturday morning, and there's no plumbers on Monday, right? I know how to fix one. The same should be in your business, I train my people, my VA gets videos from me doing the thing that I'm asking him to do. So that he can do it, I know how to do it.

Tara Newman 25:31
There's a lot of chaos in businesses, online or offline doesn't really matter, but particularly in online businesses to when the fact is that you're abdicating the responsibility. You don't know how to do it. And you're expecting the other person to come in and make sense out of something that you don't know how to make sense out of.

Alyson Lex 25:52
Right, write

Jennie Wright 25:56
down a little bit more specific kind of thing. And talk about you know, once you've got somebody on your team, you're paying them in the appropriate wage, you're doing all that? How do you decide when to raise their hourly rate? Or offer bonuses? What is what is like the, what do you think is the best way to do it?

Tara Newman 26:14
Oh, I like this question. So I think just in general, I'm a Profit First certified coach, I think that Profit First is the jam for all of this because it answers so many questions. And it's not that it is hard and fast black or white. But it at least allows you to make intentional decisions. So if you're running a business under $250,000, which is like 95% of women are running businesses, maybe 90%, under 90% of women running businesses that are you know, $250,000 in revenue, profit first makes sure you actually pay yourself first so that you're not paying all this team first. And then not paying yourself. Because that happens, the majority of women are not paying themselves or paying themselves enough, or giving themselves increases or creating a compensation plan for themselves that factor in their financial, but also their emotional and their psychological needs. Right. And so having that that those metrics in front of you from Profit First are really helpful. And what it basically does is it forces you it's Parkinson's Law, with what you have left, after you've taken your profit, after you've paid yourself. And after you've paid your taxes with what you have left, you have to run your business. So that is how you start to make decisions. This is what I have left? Well, that's not enough. Okay, well, do you want to pay yourself less for a period of time, so that you can make this investment and get your revenue up, so you can start paying yourself more? Right, it starts to really allow you to inform your decisions. Now, once you and I really, I'm really going to say something that's energetic. How you pay yourself is going to be reflected in how you pay your team. If you can't pay yourself well, consistently, honestly, and understand it, I'm gonna say you're probably going to struggle to pay your team. That's just, that's just that's just like the the energetics of business, right? It's also going to make you feeling really resentful. And you're going to be like, that's when you get on your team. And you're like, where's the value in what I'm paying you This is too much, and I'm not getting right, because you're not paying yourself. So of course, you're going to feel that way. So I personally rather you do the task and pay yourself to do the task, then pay somebody else and be resentful and angry about it. But whatever. I mean, maybe that's just like a sidebar. So I have this belief around pain team. And here's how I run my team. Y'all could do whatever you want. And I have contractors that have been with me for years. And we have bring we do bring people on like Alison was saying for like ad hoc type of things. So the first person that I started with was a VA was somebody who was going to be responsible for customer service, my inbox, because most people think there's not an ROI to that there is a lot of ROI to that. If their job is to make sure that your delivery is going smoothly and that you meet the expectations of your clients and they are enjoying their work with you and getting a result they are going to work with you again. They may leave but they'll come back and they'll tell people about the great experience they've had with you, which isn't really that hard these days. So it is coming pletely worth it in a completely revenue generating role. So always have that person who's in that customer support and service position. And then add slowly, right and have the way I add is like, can I sustain this person's retainer for the next six months, I don't want to create a relationship with somebody that is going to be volatile. I said, I can pay this, but now I can't. And business isn't this. And that's not good. And I get that they're contractors, they're not employees, so they have other income coming in. But I also take responsibility for what my commitments are, and, and the relationships that I want to have and how I want to be in those relationships.

And I will caveat this and say, My Owner Statement, the reason why I own a business, is to build a business that's in service to my health and to create extraordinary wealth for myself and others. If I take out the part about and others, from that statement, it has little motivation. For me, I am somebody who is very motivated by the collective. And that's not everybody, there are people who are motivated just by in being an individual. And that's fine. I'm not saying that that's not okay. I'm just saying it's going to factor into how you're going to run your business. And so it's me putting my oxygen mask on first, me creating wealth for myself. And then me having some level of joy and interest, and motivation, and then seeing these contractors that I have working for me thriving, financially thriving, emotionally, and mentally and physically and all those things as well through the work that we do together. And how do I create that, and that's why I'm saying it's important to me that I don't commit to things unless I know that I can sustain them. And then what winds up happening is, they grow with me. And as we take on more work and their skill set deepens within the business, and they are knowing each other and the team is gelling. On an annual basis, I review and more at more than just annually scope. I'm very, like, I don't want to creep on anybody's scope. So I'm always like, let me know if this is out of scope, you have to come and tell me we have to prepare for this and plan for this and have this discussion where you come back to me and you say like this is psychological safety, right? Like that, you come back to me and say, Listen, you're you're pressing my buttons, you're contacting me at a time that might be not good for me, or you're asking for this. And it's not within scope. And I'm happy to do it. That's interesting to me. But if this is what it's going to cost. Is that okay? Likewise, don't just do it, and then charge me. Right?

Alyson Lex 33:05
Well, and what I think I'm hearing you say is, with Profit First, and I love the Profit First framework. So if anybody is interested in understanding how that'll work, then hit the show notes page and contact her because it really is kind of a game changer for yourself. But with the Profit First framework, and this idea of making sure that you are being financially responsible with your business to the point where you're not taking on retainers you can't afford, you're not creating volatile relationships with your team. Having that financial foundation allows you the bandwidth to approach your team with a better attitude. Because you're not super stressed about the money you're not. Where's the value in having you,

Tara Newman 33:57
you know where she's going, you know, you can treat them like you probably are building a cash cushion. And like businesses that are only focused on revenue, which is a lot of businesses and a lot of businesses in the online space are not healthy. Profit is healthy. Profit is healthy financially, emotionally. Psychologically, because when I have profit, and I'm able to have a cash cushion and some runway, I don't freak out if I have a bad month.

Jennie Wright 34:31
So Tell,

Alyson Lex 34:34
tell our listeners where they can connect with you to get some of those resources to help build that cash cushion to help put that system in place. Because that's That's step one.

Tara Newman 34:44
Yeah, sure. So we have a revenue goal calculator, and you can go to the bold leadership I had to actually think about what my website was for a second that ever happened anyway, the bold leadership forward slash revenue And that is a calculator. And what it does is it takes you through putting in what your personal expenses are. Because our business expenses and our personal expenses are tied. So you put in your personal expenses, and then it's going to tell you how much you need to pay yourself on a on a monthly and an annual basis. And then it's going to reverse engineer and tell you how much revenue you need in your business to pay yourself that amount. And it will also break down for you how much is going to go to profit, how much you're going to pay yourself how much you pay in taxes, and how much you have for operating expenses to pay a team. It does all the math right there for you. And we have other resources in the hub once you go there. And then. And if you actually take action on those things, you might get a little note from me that says like, Hey, I see that you're an action taker. Would you like a 15 minute call to walk through your revenue flow calculator?

Jennie Wright 36:00
Smart? I like that. We'll put the link for that. In the show notes. You said it was the bold leadership Ford slash revenue. We'll have that in the show notes. This is episode one, sorry, 204. Crazy. So go to system to Ford slash 204. And you'll have everything there that we've talked about with Tara, including the link to the Ellen Pompeo, Gina Rodriguez and Gabrielle Union. I think Emma Roberts was also on that. So we actually have pulled the link for the 24 minute video from YouTube, so that you can watch the whole thing as opposed to just grabbing a clip. So that'll be in there as well. Tara, we need more time with you like,

Alyson Lex 36:40
forever. Can we just like hang out for a minute podcast

Jennie Wright 36:43
isn't enough. And I see a summit

Tara Newman 36:45
in our future? I do. I don't know anybody here who might be able to coordinate a summit?

Jennie Wright 36:53
I don't know anybody who's done like over 300 of those. It would just be sort of weird, right? But

Alyson Lex 37:00
but you get a landing page for that done? I don't know. I don't know who

Jennie Wright 37:03
would write the copy. But here we are. But we're gonna have to wrap up today. Because I mean, we're just going to need to do more episodes. So we'll just have to have you back again, to talk about more cool stuff. So Tara, thank you so much for doing this with us. We really do appreciate it.

Tara Newman 37:16
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

Jennie Wright 37:19
And everybody go and check out Tara on the links that are in the show notes. As well as you know, just popping your name into into Apple podcasts will get you some really good results. Trust me. I did it. So go and check that out as well. Thanks so much for listening. Make sure you're following us and don't forget to leave us a comment. Let us know what you think podcast and we'll talk to y'all soon. Take care



Episode 164 – Real Talk About Numbers, Scale, and What It’s REALLY Like To Grow a Business with Tara Newman

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