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What We Talk About

Working with a highly paid expert – like a copywriter – is NOT the same as hiring someone from Fiverr, tossing them a task and micromanging until the work is done.

When you're investing a chunk of change, there are a few things to consider… and a few things you should be looking for in whoever you hire.

In this episode, Jennie & Alyson go behind the scenes to show you what it looks like when you hire an expert – and how to get the most out of your investment with them.

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:01
If you haven't hired a copywriter in your business to create your marketing collateral, your emails, your sales pages, your landing pages, all of that good stuff, it can feel really overwhelming, because you don't even know where to start. And there are a ton of copywriters to choose from, some of them more experienced than others, some of them in certain niches definitely not all created equal. But the other thing that they're not created equal in is a lot of them aren't going to guide you through the process of actually working with them in the right way. And so that's what this episode is all about. Jenny and I are going to tell you, everything you need to know about hiring a copywriter in your business, and frankly, between you, me and the lamppost, this can be transferred to hiring anybody else to like, for instance, someone who puts together amazing funnels and summits and events, and list builds, like Jenny, who is preening over here on the video if you're watching.

Jennie Wright 1:05
And I will say yeah, absolutely everything we're going to talk about today is transposable over into the different hires that you may have to make in your business. But specifically, when it comes to working with a copywriter, or getting your pictures taken, or having a funnel built, there are steps that you need to do it's and that's going to create the best possible experience between you and your copywriter your person, if you want a copywriter and I learned this the hard way. And I think Allison, we should tell them why we're talking about this. So I'll go first and then I think you have the bigger story to tell. Well, when I first started out in the online world, I was a virtual assistant. And in my previous life, I had done ghost writing and copywriting for in a fourth in a fortune, fortune 500 company two of them actually. Yeah. And they weren't that wasn't terribly hard work was writing press releases and emails and newsletters and you name it. And when I became a VA in this business, I transpose some of those skills and I became a ghostwriter for people's blogs. I also did emails and things like that. So I did some copywriting. But when I went to actually hire a copywriter, ie Allison, it's a completely different process to have somebody else write your stuff. And to get the most out of working with that person, the most bang for your buck the most out of your investment, you absolutely need to follow the steps that Allison is going to share that we're going to talk about today.

Alyson Lex 2:31
A lot of my clients come to me, and if they haven't hired a writer before, they literally have no idea what to expect. They have no idea how the process works. And so a lot of the time that I spend with them, is teaching them what comes next and setting expectations, and really outlining the process. And so that's really what is inspiring this episode because it can be daunting and overwhelming. And if you don't know what you're doing, it can keep you from taking that step forward in your business. That's not what we want for you. We want you to feel comfortable taking that step. Whether it's hiring a copywriter, hiring someone for your blog content, hiring someone to build your pages, to run your events, what have you. If you're more comfortable with what is going to happen, you're more likely to take that step to grow your business. So that's really what this is all about. And so we're not going to talk about how to find the right person. That would be a whole other masterclass on its own. Okay, but we're gonna start with assuming you found someone to help you. If it's a copywriter, I happen to know one.

Jennie Wright 3:49
Actually, I happen to know the best one and she's right here with

Alyson Lex 3:51
us. If it's somebody to strategize and implement a list build, I happen to know an amazing one. But whoever you're choosing, it's gonna start with actually making the hire. And so the first thing you're going to do is the paperwork. The unsexy part of any and every business transaction. Okay, there are a few things that your paperwork should include. If you've heard Johnny and I talk about our proposal process, you know, that our individual proposals and our together proposals, they actually turn into the contract when they're signed? Oh, yes, they do. Just awesome. And so we include all of these things in our proposal, your copywriter or your experts should do the same thing. In theory, in a perfect world, okay. But upfront, you want to know what services are going to be provided. What the final deliverables are, the deadline or the timeline, the fees and the payment terms. You may also see Things like a non compete, a nondisclosure, a cancellation policy, copyright information, all the legal mumbo jumbo that protects both parties. For instance, in my business, I do not, and will not sign a non compete. That would be shooting myself in the foot. However, I will happily sign any nondisclosure information you want. Okay, so that's going to vary from writer to writer. Sure, copyright information, some writers hold on to the copyright until they've received final payment, which is what I do. Some may hold on to copyright in perpetuity, and you just have licensed to use. I think I'm not really 100% sure, some may not include copyright information, which means it's open to interpretation. And you want to clarify that. It's really important that anything you don't understand when it comes to these legal terms, the deliverables, the timeline, anything, get clarification, it's okay to ask questions. You want to be 100%, clear on what's included? What to expect, before you sign anything,

Jennie Wright 6:11
oh, hundred percent or write your purse super important. You don't want to have that issue when we you know, we don't have that issue later on where the person says, I don't know what I was buying. I don't know what I was trying to get. And I'd like a refund. Right, or they have an issue and we don't want to get to that place. Having that complete and utter clarity has to be top notch. It has to be right there. Everything that's being written. So I love this, Allison. And I know and I mean, I've been part of your proposal process. And you and I've worked together with clients. And it's phenomenal how you kind of lay it out. One of the best parts that I love in your contracts is that it says that you work odd hours.

Alyson Lex 6:52
And that expect

Jennie Wright 6:54
right Yeah, what to expect and that you end up sending people their copy after hours. Because it's true. You and I write our things. And we work on funnels after hours.

Alyson Lex 7:04
Yeah, so it's really good for me to be upfront about that. If I say it's going to be there on the first, my potential client may think, Oh, it's going to be here by end of business on the first they're going to expect it by 5pm. But I work after my kid goes to bed. And so they might not get it until 10 or 11. To me saying it's going to be there on the first means by 1159 and 15 seconds. And so by putting that up front and being open with that, I set the expectation and they're good. Okay, so if the person you're hiring does not clarify that stuff, and that's important to you clarify it with them. It's all you have to know. Okay, pricing, not everybody is created equal. Not all experts are created equal. Neither is the amount they charge. Right? Mm hmm.

Jennie Wright 8:00
I can absolutely agree with you. I remember when I started doing ghost writing, when I first started online, I was getting paid 11 bucks an hour how insane it was. But that was in that was in a different role. And that was years and years ago. But it was also the fact that I didn't I mean, I didn't value my writing where I needed to be. And trust me, met Alyson Lex probably my writing a lot differently, like

Alyson Lex 8:23
how much should I charge for this way more than you are? So you want to have that conversation about pricing. If you have a specific budget in mind, be upfront with it. When you're talking to your copywriter. I have potential clients and clients who have said to me, this is my budget. And so I figure out how to get them something that will help them move the needle forward within that budget if that budget is not enough for the whole shebang. So your copywriter should be able to help work with you. Now, as I mentioned, not all copywriters are created equal. Some don't deal with strategy. Some are like, you tell me what to write and I write it. And that's great. If you're looking for someone to help you kind of figure things out. You might need to look elsewhere. So that's part of what's included in a lot of pricing is that expertise and that strategy? Okay. Does that all make sense? Jenny? Did I skip anything? No, that

Jennie Wright 9:26
makes perfect sense. The The thing that I would love to add in there is, you know, you touch briefly on strategy. And I want to I want to talk about that a little bit because I think it's a really important component. If you've never ever worked with a copywriter before, if you've never gone to this level, then the expectation can be vast that you can have this huge and we talked about expectations a short time ago. But if you need somebody that's going to help you understand how to use the copy, then you absolutely need to have a copywriter that's willing to talk about the strategy and quite often A lot of them will. But remember that that has to be something that you allow to be factored into the cost of working with them.

Unknown Speaker 10:07
And you

Jennie Wright 10:08
can work very hard on your own first before you come to a copywriter to understand exactly what it is that you need. So if you need a sales page, okay, and the point of that sales page is to sell your six week course, and your ideal client is such and such and such and such, and you already know that you're going to hold webinars and you need sales emails and all this kind of stuff, then you're making a lot easier for the copywriter. If you're relying on the copywriter to help build out the strategy for what copy is going to be included in working together and what's going to work. That's a different kettle of fish. Right? and be prepared to have those conversations. Luckily, Allison is a strategist plus copywriter plus imaginer. plus, plus plus plus. And she can't help herself

Alyson Lex 11:01
provide

Jennie Wright 11:02
you really, can you provide that level of of help, and I can't either. I know, that's why I was a terrible VA.

Alyson Lex 11:12
I bright like I probably leave, quote unquote, leaves so much money on the table.

Jennie Wright 11:16
Dude, me too, because I can't help myself.

Alyson Lex 11:19
I can't stop. I'm like, here's the idea that

Jennie Wright 11:24
I would have people coming to me saying, here's my blog post, go post it. And I'm like, I got questions for you. Yeah. What questions well, why this blog post? What's the purpose? How's it going to help? What's it going to do? Who is it going to take? You know, who's it gonna reach? How's it going to teach? How's it going to do all the things and the person's like, I don't know, does. My coach told me to write a blog post, I'm like, let's think about this a little bit more. I can't help it. And that's why you know, a va is, and not all VA is that's why I ended up calling myself more of a strategist. But you know, you're supposed to give the work to the person and the person goes and does the work. And I was the person said, well, let's have a five minute conversation about this. And you're the same way and I couldn't even help it.

Alyson Lex 12:12
I have a client that I wrote some copy for a page as part of a test for him. He's running ads, it wasn't converting. And he's like, I need some help. And I was immediately identified why it wasn't working, wrote it. And now he and I like having all these conversations. He's like, Oh, I'm testing this. I'm like, oh, what if you test that? And it's fun for me. Right? He's not paying me for that interaction, which, you know, sucks for my wallet. But it's fun for me. So it's cool. And I just can't help myself. And so it really depends on the level that you're looking for. If you want a copywriter that you say, I want a sales page about this. And they just go and do it. Awesome. They exist. If you want a copywriter who's going to help guide you through things awesome. They exist to Okay, so we talked about the payment, or I'm sorry, the the timeline as well, an understanding when things are going to be delivered payment information, do they offer a payment plan? How do they want to be paid, sucks having to talk about the money stuff, but this is business, so you're going to have to talk about the money stuff. Once you sign everything, then it's time to go ahead and get started. Jenny mentioned kind of having your stuff together. Before you even contact a copywriter. Let me tell you as someone who does this for a lot of clients, we call you a unicorn. Oh heck yes. Oh, my goodness, do we call you a unicorn? Mm hmm. If you can come to your writer or your expert with a semblance of who your audiences, details about what you're selling all of that information ready to be delivered. We're going to love you forever.

Jennie Wright 14:05
Not only they're going to love you forever, but it's going to make the process more streamlined. It's going to make it easier for the copywriter to get your voice to get your purpose it's going to make the copywriters job easier, which reduces the amounts of edits which forms a better relationship because quite honestly one of the things and you and I have seen this were copies delivered and because the client didn't provide all of the information to the to the copywriter. There is an issue right?

Alyson Lex 14:43
Yeah, exactly.

Jennie Wright 14:45
And what happens is is that what happens is is that the copywriters like okay, you know, out here I wrote what I could based on the information you gave me and everything I could find and then the the client comes back and says well It's not at all what I thought it was going to be. Well, what did you expect? If you didn't provide the copywriter with at least something, something to go off of? Right? So even though the unicorns are rare, it would be really nice if we had more unicorns,

Alyson Lex 15:13
of course. So let's help create some unicorns Shall we, to help your copywriter, send past examples of sales pages and emails that you've sent samples that illustrate your branding your voice and stuff you like and why you like it. Give clear objectives, right? The client that I just mentioned, he said, I'm not getting conversions. Here's my data, I'd like to improve this. Awesome. Great, I now know what your funnel looks like. He sent me all the different pages, all the ads, everything. So I could get a full clear picture that will help me improve the sales copy in this one spot. It's not just the information about this one spot that we need. We need the big picture. Also, any and all information on who you're talking to. I have a client right now that wants to improve their sales page. I read their sales page. I can see some places to improve. But there's one thing I don't know who's going to see it. I have no idea what their specific niches. I know what their overall general niches. But I don't know if the people that are going to see this have been to an event of theirs before are just on their list. Are they going to be running ads? What's the debit? What's the avatar or profile? I have no clue. And so now I need to get on a call and ask those questions. Whereas if you can give me just some bullets doesn't have to be a thought out menu script. Right? Give me some bullets this age, they live here. This is what they do. This is what they're looking for. This is the problem they have. This is why they're coming to me. That's going to help me get started. I do research already. Most copywriters do. But if you can get me started, so at least I'm going in the right direction. That's good. That's what makes you a unicorn. Okay, we can, you might do this on a phone call. You might do this via email. My clients love that. They can just send me emails. And I deal with it on my end and I organize that's part of what I offer. They don't have to think they can just be like, Oh, I thought a brain dump. They dump Yeah, yes. And I organize it on my end. Yep.

Jennie Wright 17:35
And I'm a little bit more of a please organize it as you give give it to me person. Oh, the brain dump drives me a little nuts, because I'm one of those people that will until I'm ready to actually start working. I'm waiting for the stuff because it's different when you're building a funnel or whatnot. It's a little bit different, but obviously is one particular one,

Alyson Lex 17:57
right? I have a client that I wrote a sales page for. And she literally scribbled notes on a piece of paper and sent me pictures in Facebook Messenger. That was how I got the information. That worked for her. I have another client who's added me to a whole Google Drive. And she just throws notes in there. Great. I have other clients who just forward me emails. Awesome. I have other clients who want me to log into their systems, not my preference. I like to avoid logging into things because that's heartbreak. Okay, so you've hired your copywriter, you've paid the deposit that they've requested, you've delivered all of the information. Here's the next part, step back and let them do their work. Once you have shared all of that information, leave them alone. might sound harsh, but I stand by it. Okay. Here's why. Not everybody works the same way. There are some copywriters and some experts and some funnel builders, who they start working little bit by little bit. And if you were to check in with them every day, you would see progress. And there are some people and me. I don't I do stuff in the background, I think about it. Honestly, I come up with headlines when I'm in the shower, and I write them down. And then I don't touch it until really when I get closer to when the projects do and then I write it all at once. That is how I'm able to write the most cohesive copy.

Jennie Wright 19:39
And I completely agree with that process.

Alyson Lex 19:42
Right. That's how I build funnels. Because it's cohesive, it makes sense. You can always set yourself up for success ahead of time, which which I do I set up the documents. I put together all the notes, jot down any ideas, but you're not going to see a document you're not going to see it built before your eyes.

Jennie Wright 19:59
No And then that that worries like, so that worries people, right? So you'll get notes occasionally, where somebody's like, Well, you know, how's it going, I'm not seeing any progress happening. And we have to remind the person, it's happening. Your copywriter, like a lot of the process of hiring a copywriter and working with a copywriter is the fact that the copywriter is literally working. As soon as payments been received, they're thinking about it, they're doing competitive research, they're, you know, spending a little bit of time on Facebook looking around or wherever they have to look. And that starts the brain percolating. And as it gets closer to the time where they're going to have to deliver the project, things start coming together. Right, that creative process starts happening, because honestly, copywriting is creative, it very much is it's a creative process. And sometimes

Alyson Lex 20:47
to to Sure,

Jennie Wright 20:49
there really is, and there is, and we've talked about that, and we'll have to do an episode just on that just on the like the quote unquote, formulas of proper copy. And there is that but there's a whole creative process that goes into it as well. I've seen you write copy around aluminum windows, I've seen you write copy, for you know, a dad who wants to help kids learn sports. I've seen you write copy for love coaches. And to get into the mindset of every particular niche that you've written. And you've written a lot of them, that also takes some work, right? So you can't, and I know this from you, but you can't write, you can't sit down and go, Okay, I'm gonna write four sentences for my love coach, copy, and then snap my fingers. And now I'm going to write two paragraphs for my aluminum window, copy, and then snap my fingers. And now I'm going to go write this, you can't do it, there's, there's gears that have to like, realign themselves. So that's why when you're working with a copywriter, you may not see anything happening, but it is happening. And so it's hard to sit back and go, Oh, I just paid all this money, and I'm waiting for the copy. Right? It's, you know, any good copywriter worth their salt is already working on it and will deliver to you, you know, obviously, there's some people out there, like in every industry that you know, of course, are less than, like have, you know, questionable scruples. But somebody with a Alison's talent and, and background would never do that. And, yeah, so it's a little different. But I'm coming at that from the client perspective, because I've actually had that with you.

Alyson Lex 22:28
Yeah. You know, like, Yeah. Are you working on a copy? And then all of a sudden,

Jennie Wright 22:34
there's a full sales page? Well, full sales page, confirmation, sequence, sales, email, reminder, emails, replay emails, and I'm like, how did you manage to write 15 emails, you're like, dude, I've been on it. I've been working on it. I'm like, Okay, and then the sales page converts at 44%. And the emails open at 50%, with a click through rate of over 20%. And I go, Wow, that was worth it.

Alyson Lex 23:00
Right? saying these numbers, I also want to set expectations that not everything's going to be a hit out of the park, especially on the first project, I'm able to get those kind of numbers with Jenny, because we've known each other for so long, I am intimately familiar with her niche, and her people, and the way I talk and the way she talks and I'm able to nail it, because I know it. Okay, if it's a I always say I strive for 400% satisfaction on the first go round, especially on the first project. Very rarely do I get there. And so that's important too. And we're actually going to talk about that in the next step, which is the first draft because this is a process. Okay, when your copywriter gives you your first draft, it's entirely possible you're not gonna like it. It could be a little bit missing on the voice. Maybe it's not a sparkling maybe you didn't know what to expect. And you just expected magic glitter to rise off the page. And it's just not for some reason. This has happened to me. Okay, I hired a copywriter because I was too overwhelmed to do some copy from me. I got it back. And I don't know what I expected. But that wasn't it. But wasn't that my expectations were all for was the copy off. I really had to take some time and sit with it. to really think about is this. Is this good? Okay. It needed some massaging. It needed a little love. But yes, it was good. It was that I had all of these amazing expectations of this is going to be the best thing I've ever seen. And when it came back, it didn't glitter off the pain.

Jennie Wright 24:51
That's a really great way to explain it because a lot of people have the expectation that they you know, that it's just going to come back perfect. It's not going to not necessarily.

Alyson Lex 25:03
Right. Okay, not this isn't a reflection of how good the copywriter is or their skill or their ability to master your voice. It's just the first step. Okay. Until we have that steady working relationship built, it takes time to learn you right now, so I should have mentioned this way back in step one, which is the hiring. How many edits are included in your package?

Unknown Speaker 25:36
Yes.

Alyson Lex 25:38
Okay. Let's

Jennie Wright 25:38
talk more about that.

Alyson Lex 25:40
So some copywriters offer two rounds of edits. Some copywriters offer three, some offer one. I do not cap it. I have yet to have someone take advantage of this. We shall see if I still continue not to cap it. Okay. But really a round of edits is not like, Hey, can you change this word? That's not a round of edits. It's I've looked at everything. I've made all of my notes, and I want you to take it. Okay. And then, so if you get two rounds of edits, you have the opportunity to do that twice. Okay, your first draft is not etched in stone. Okay, it can move, it can update, it can edit, it's a solid base. Right? You can say, you know, you speak really harshly here. And I know my audience is not going to appreciate that, or I would never say that. Cool. Let them fix it. Okay, so once you've kind of delivered all of the information to them, you're going to do this dance, you're going to connect and step back and connect and step back and connect and step back. Right? give them information, let them do their job, give them information, let them do their job. Communication is so essential.

Unknown Speaker 27:08
Oh, yeah.

Alyson Lex 27:10
Have you ever seen I'm sure it's on TV shows. Right? We're like, here's Trading Spaces. If you if you've ever watched that, right? You get those families. And I remember there's one family and she was just like, I don't like it. And Paige Davis was like, Well, why? I don't know, I just don't like it. That kind of reaction, not helpful. No. We need you to process. And of course, that's right. When they first see it, it's dramatized for reality television like, but that's my example. Let it sit. Thank your copywriter. Got it, I'm going to review, let it sit until you can pinpoint what you like or don't like, and then you can give that information to them. This can be done via email, comments on the document. A phone call, however, works best for you and your writer. Hopefully your writer is flexible on this understanding that you may need to work in a certain way. Again, not all writers are the same. Some will prefer to communicate exclusively via email. If that's not okay with you, you need to know it upfront.

Jennie Wright 28:22
And that's part of the setting expectations. Submit quotations

Alyson Lex 28:25
Exactly. You know, so one thing that Jenny does with her business is she is happy to hop on a quick call. right to have that conversation, I'm a little less happy to do that. And it's not about an ego. It's not anything like that, it's that I process information better when it's written. And so on a call actually takes me more effort to come to the same understanding than if you just typed it out.

Jennie Wright 29:01
And it for me, it's a completely different, you know, like ball of wax, because my stuff is visual. And if somebody sends me an email and says move the headline up two spaces, that's not gonna make any sense to me. What's two spaces? Right? That's like, That makes no sense. So I would rather have a call and be like, okay, so the, you know, the background believes that the right color for me or this headline is a little bit too big for me, or whatever I can I can I can go in there and make changes in the moment

Alyson Lex 29:30
in that writing real time. Yeah, exactly. And that works for me.

Jennie Wright 29:34
He and Alyson before Allison and I partnered, that was not part of the process that necessarily Allison had to participate in as much. And we are new, and we've partnered up on quite a few clients. And Allison participates in those meetings a little bit more than like, Hey, I got to jump on a quick call for it so and so on. And you're a little bit more on board with with doing that because sometimes it's involved a little bit of the copy, but more so you Come on, or at least I've heard Rather recording to you or something so that you can understand what has changed in the project. Because it's a lot easier for, for the client to have those, you know those moments and sometimes then let's be honest, sometimes you're like, you might get your copy back, and you might have buyer's remorse. Okay. And that's part of that first draft and the edits portion, really like, wow, I got it back. And you know, like you said, the glitter doesn't pop off the page. It doesn't mean you made a bad decision necessarily, but it does mean that you have to have a moment with one yourself to also the writer. And maybe there's some explanation needs to be had. Right?

Alyson Lex 30:38
That's a really good point. Yeah, munication? Hey, I'm not really sure that I'm on board with this. Can we talk?

Jennie Wright 30:46
Yeah, sure. We had a client where we built out an entire funnel. And I was keeping track of the landing page rates, the opt in rates, and the opt in rates were less than what we'd wanted. And the writing style that we had adopted, because you wrote all the copy was a slight tweak on what, you know, potentially, what we would have used for the promotion of the style. And what we did was is, we just kind of went to the client, we say, hey, look, you know what we think this page could perform better. And so we've gone ahead and made a variation of it. And we've tweaked the copy of the homepage, and we've tweaked the look and feel, and we're gonna see how it lands. And and then the software we use, because we use Click Funnels. And in clickfunnels, you can use AV testing. And so we were learning equal amounts of traffic to both particular landing pages. And quite honestly, the original with with increased traffic, the original started to perform better, we don't know why. Maybe you just got a better audience in front of it. But as the traffic increased, we're not sure. But we ended up liking the title, a little bit of the copy that we had used on the Edit. And so we transposed it over. The landing rate, like the opt in rates increased again, we're like, okay, so it was, we didn't have to tweak the page, but the copy needed a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of normal.

Alyson Lex 32:08
So it's really important that you understand that testing is a big thing in marketing. Not everything is going to land the first time, Jenny and I are very open with the fact that we've had a stinker or two, we've had some amazing results together. We've had some not so amazing results together. And we can improve that by testing. Now this client gives us access because Jenny built the funnel, so we have access to the stats. As a copywriter, I don't often get those, which means I can't improve. All I can go on is what I've done before, and whether or not you said it worked. If I have the numbers in my hand, then I know what you mean by worked or didn't work. So it's good to do that. I

Jennie Wright 32:57
mean, wouldn't it be great, you know, and as part of that process is for you to share those numbers with your copywriter?

Alyson Lex 33:04
Yep. Yeah. So the last thing you want to talk about is keeping your copywriter happy. At the end of the project, so you've gone through all the edits, you have something you're happy to put up. Right? Maybe you've got an amazing funnel builder on your team, or your copywriter happens to know one, and they put it online for you or whatever the process is, okay. Make sure you handle final payment immediately, especially if they retain copyright until final payment is delivered. Okay, so I hold copyright until I'm paid in full. I have I have a couple clients that are not allowed to use my copy. Why don't you explain that a little bit more? Yeah, so if you don't pay me, all of my money you can't use that legally can't use the company. Um, there are, there's actually a company that's using copy I provided that they are not legally allowed to but they're in a different country. And so my recourse is limited. Um, and the dollar figure was not high enough for me to fight. If it was higher, I would, okay. This is something I take seriously, this is my income. This is my business. This is my family's livelihood. I mean, my husband works too, but this pays bills. Okay. And I can think, really offhand of four different clients that still owe me money from the last couple of years. They owe me money and they're not paying it. They've either completely disappeared they flat out said they're not paying it. I have from longer than a couple years ago, were charged back did a charge back because what she got despite the clarity in the proposal was not what she thought she was expecting magic glitter and she got coffee. And it's good copy, just put that out there. She chargeback, I had a contract, I won the chargeback. And she threatened to sue me. And so I gave her half of the money back. But she is, and I told her, you are legally not allowed to use this copy. If I find out, I will sue you.

Jennie Wright 35:22
So that's a little bit of the darker side. And that, you know, happens, it happens, let's do you know, we got to be real and honest about it happens in all the different industries. There's great clients, and there's, you know, awesome clients, and then there's clients that raise a red flag, and then you things happen, right. And we understand that. And so we just want to, you know, one of the goals with this particular episode in this podcast, in general is the transparency of what it's like,

Alyson Lex 35:45
yeah, be

Jennie Wright 35:47
on our sides and to be on your sides to write because we're, we're clients to other people as well, we hire people to help us. And we've been on the receiving side, we've, you know, we've hired and fired a couple of days, because the clarity is not there, or we've hired and fired people to help us with things because that's, you know, they're not, they're not upholding their end of the bargain. But what we're trying to get across here is communication is a huge tool to getting satisfaction from whomever you're working with, especially a copywriter, right. So make sure that's a big part of what you're doing. And don't let the fact that you may or may not have ever hired one in the past, be

Alyson Lex 36:23
a barrier to

Jennie Wright 36:25
having a great experience.

Alyson Lex 36:26
Yeah, use this as a guide for what to expect. Yeah. Now, with any help that you have testimonials, be free with them, send them messages, hey, I'm going to send you a message, it's going to be a testimonial, feel free to use it. And then I do it all the time. I send testimonials out all the time. I don't know people use them, but I love to do it. Sure. referrals. Okay, if you have a VA, that's amazing. You're probably not sharing that person's information, because you don't want them to get too busy for you. If you have a copywriter, that's amazing. share the information. I have clients that come back over and over and over again, they actually get priority and scheduling over new clients. Okay, because they're my loyal clients, and they don't get priority pricing. They don't get anything like they get priority in scheduling. Okay, that's kind of a little inside there. If you're a repeat client, you're probably going to get to the top of the list in priority. But refer them they love that and some copywriters will have, and some experts might have a little Thank you. If you pick up what I'm putting down, they might send you I have some clients that I've sent gifts to some clients, I've sent money to some clients I've sent gift cards to. So I always made sure to thank for referrals. Please do you know, share them? Yeah, absolutely. And then update them on how things are going. Give them the results that they can potentially talk about. In the future. I love to share success stories of my clients. I don't get to very often because they don't tell me. Yep. And this again, goes for any expert you hire, whether it's an amazing video editor who creates your YouTube stuff, an amazing funnel builder, a great copywriter, your VA, anybody you're hiring in your business, this is how you work with them. Set your expectations up front. Give them the information they need in the way they need it. communicate, communicate, communicate, let them do their job, and take care of them when it's done. That's it.

Jennie Wright 38:42
Thanks it easy. Does. Absolutely this has been I think this has been a great episode. Thank you simply because we got a little bit of more insight into some of the stuff that not everybody talks about some of the stuff that we just talked about with copywriting and whatnot. And copywriting can make a huge difference in your business. So I want everybody to sort of think about that. And also transpose like Alison was saying transpose this information to other people that we're working with. So on that note, if you haven't already and you enjoyed this episode, please make sure you go over to System to THRIVE on wherever you're listening to your podcasting, and subscribe. Additionally, we love to hear from you. And we would love to get a review. honest and transparent. Doesn't have to be five stars, but we'd like it. But you can be honest, and share with us what you think of the information that we're giving you. Additionally, you can head over to System to thrive.com. And check out some of the free downloads that we have available for you because they're all there. Some of these episodes that we do have downloads that you can get. So go check those out. There's also ways where you can find out how to reach Allison and I how to work with Alison and I. There's lots of ways you can also be sure that you're in our Facebook group, thrive collaborative. Go check that out on Facebook. So thank you so much for being here and listening with us. We appreciate it. We'll be back another time answering another big question.

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