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We've all been there – our prices are so low they make us sick but the idea of RAISING them makes us… well, you get the picture.

That's why we've asked Kathryn Calhoun – online business coach – to come talk with us about pricing strategies and how normal, everyday people (read: not sales rockstars) can sell at prices that don't upset the tummy.

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For Kathryn's free guide on how to sell even if you hate selling, visit https://kathryncalhouncoaching.com/simple or click the button below:

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Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Unknown Speaker 0:00
The champion entrepreneur

Alyson Lex 0:02
Episode 248. If you try to learn copywriting The first thing you really should learn is empathy, but empathizing with people and really understanding all of those things about them, you're going to be able to sell them what they want, and what they need to make their lives truly better.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
Are you prepared to take the next step in your journey to becoming the champion you know, you are within? Are you inspired and motivated to take control of your destiny? The champion entrepreneur with your host Anthony Lee Witt is here to take you to the next level and provide you with action steps needed to unleash the champion within

Unknown Speaker 0:41
Hello, champions. What's going on? Hey, we are ready to learn today. I'm excited to learn today. We have a great guest. Our guest today is Alyson Lex ELLs and welcome to the champion entrepreneur.

Alyson Lex 0:54
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

Unknown Speaker 0:57
Well, I'm excited. I'm excited that you're here. champions. Allison comes to us. As you know, when she started her career, she was able to start it out with two of the highest paid and highest sought after copywriters, and individuals in the industry. She was able to learn a ton from them. And since then she has started her own stuff. She's doing her own business providing copywriting marketing strategies for her clients all over the world. Alison, welcome again, of course. But tell us tell us more kind of what you're up to a little bit little bit more of your history kind of kind of where you came from.

Alyson Lex 1:34
Sure. So you mentioned my my two high paid and highly sought after copywriters and strategist that's up Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer. So I was actually a marketing manager, marketing director really for Glaser Kennedy insider circle. And while I was there, I was in charge of, Oh, you know, marketing events and implementing all the newsletters and creating all the products and working all the hours. And just really running the marketing department and we had a lot of fun and I got to learn a whole lot from Bill I worked with him really close every single day. And he taught me a lot of really great habits that I'm able to use in my business now. And I actually joke that Glaser Kennedy is an entrepreneur incubator, really, because a lot of my former co workers are all off doing our own thing running our own businesses. And I've even partnered up with my old boss, Julie Boswell, who was also a director of marketing. And so she and I are business partners in one of my ventures now. So it's a really been interesting to take what I've learned there in the direct response world. And then, of course, everything that I've learned about social media and blogging, and I'm getting ready to really dive into LinkedIn. You know, really just learning everything I can about this whole online marketing and marketing in general space. And, and, and helping a lot of people around the world make a lot of money. That's my goal.

Unknown Speaker 3:00
So let me ask you this, you know, I can I can have as your story, you know, tells you know, you were able to start with some high powered individuals and champions, if you're listening now you don't know who those two people are. You need to check them out. Because they they have some good stuff going on.

Alyson Lex 3:16
super smart.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
Yeah, exactly. How important do you see that starting point for you in respect to where you are now?

Alyson Lex 3:27
I think for me, it was pretty essential. And I'm not saying that it's essential for everyone. But for me, I didn't understand what an entrepreneur was. So I actually fell into that, this whole world and that job. I like to say that one of my dirty little secrets is I did not know who Dan Kennedy was, before I took the job. I actually got the job there as an administrative assistant, I was trying to make some money and get a big girl job. While I figured out what I wanted to do with my life. I was an education major, I didn't think I had a brain for business. And then I decided that with the current state of the education system, I won't get on that soapbox. I didn't really want to put myself in there. And so it was really it was an accident for me to get into it. So for me, I think it was essential, because I may not have gotten here without it.

Unknown Speaker 4:19
How do you how do you see that? You know, I'm gonna use I guess maybe it's child words. I don't know. But those formative years, you know, of your growth process. What would you say? Cuz you mentioned you mentioned habits earlier. Right? And, yeah, I love habits. Of course, you know, the amazing book. I think it's Charles duhigg. If I'm not mistaken, The Power of Habit, right? habits are huge habits. When when I dive into and get to talk to all the people I get to talk to man habits is such a monumental part of their ability to be a champion that they are, in whatever industry they're in. So what type of habits Because this was kind of another question I had written down, you know, what type of habits Were you able to learn? Or what type of habits have you been able to bring forth? From your, you know, for me, I'm gonna call it education from your educational process.

Alyson Lex 5:12
Yeah. So, um, so with, with with my years at Glaser, Kennedy really and I do I call it growing up in in the marketing world at Glaser, Kennedy. So I'm glad that you, you call it the same thing. I I discovered not only how to, to write, copy, and to kind of understand people that was really the part of the education that led to my skills. But for instance, I would have a weekly meeting with Bill every week. And, you know, of course, the hour before that meeting, I'm stressing out trying to make sure I've got everything together, but he would give me my to do list. And I would highlight it off when I was done. And I would take notes during the meeting in a notebook and I all that notebook was when everywhere with me, and to this day, I still have my notebook. I mean, it's a different one, because I filled it up since then. It's you know, I keep quiet when I have client calls and things like that they get a page in the notebook. And the to do list goes in the notebook. And it's that organization level where everything stays together. But I think even more than that, everything becomes important. And so I'm able to, to keep on top of things and remember about all of my clients and and say, Oh, yeah, this is this project is going on right now, because I've written it down and it's taken that importance, I'm not just typing it in a Word document, I'm actually taking the time to write it down and have that physical version of it, which I think is something that can be lost in the whole electronic thing. I'm totally on board with going paperless except for my notebook. But I think also it shows it helps me take certain ideas are things that I learned in one place, and use them in another place. And so these notebooks become full of gold, if you will, and I keep them all, I still have all my notebooks from Glaser Kennedy to. So you know, the notebook, it sounds like a crazy habit. But I really believe that successful people write things down. I know, Benjamin Franklin kept incredible number of journals. And he was pretty successful. I think we all know who he is. So, you know, I think that, that writing things down is one of my best habits.

Unknown Speaker 7:17
So you know, you just mentioned there taking taking one thing that you've learned in one place and moving it to the other place or another area. Yeah, that right there. I guess without thinking about too deeply is really what I see as the essence of entrepreneurship. Oh, yeah. Because I mean, that's, that's, it's it's cross cross pollinating, cross contaminating in the positive sense of the word, the different things I mean, that's how we get what we that's how we get the amazing things that we get, right? Because people say, Oh, I don't this over here. But this totally applies to this subject or sphere, whatever it is, and it really goes together. You mentioned something else, though, that I find interesting that I kind of want to hit on for a minute, because I want to get into you know, my plan was to get into the copywriting because that's kind of something that you're in, right. And that's something I do. That is something you do. But what you mentioned, this concept of and you put these words together, copywriting and understanding people. Yeah. Let's let's kind of dive into that a little bit, kind of what do you mean by that?

Alyson Lex 8:24
Oh, sure. So, you know, you said you wanted to get into copywriting and I think this is the best place to start. Um, and I'm going to try and make sure I slow down my speech because I get excited, I try and cram as many words as I can into is short of time.

Unknown Speaker 8:40
And like, like any good copywriter,

Alyson Lex 8:43
I like long form copy. But understanding people understand and specifically as it relates to your business, understanding your audience, is the first, the first absolutely necessary step that you have to take. If you want to create good copy, you have to understand not just who they are like the fact that they're 85% of them are men that live in big cities and are over the age of 35. That's really important stuff, especially when you're running Facebook ads, and you want to target the right people. But more than that, you've got to know what makes those people tick, you've got to know them as well as you know, your best friend, or your significant other, or your parents or your children, you've got to know what's going to keep them up at night, and what's going to worry them and what their dreams are and how their life can be better by having you in it. And and when you begin to understand that I've really unruly, understand it and really empathize. So I think if you if you try to learn copywriting, the first thing you really should learn is empathy, but empathizing with people and really understanding all of those things about them. You're going to be able to sell them what they want, and what they need to make their lives truly better.

Unknown Speaker 9:58
So like I said, about that for a second. Um, you know that, that understanding of people is, is a struggle or struggling point for a lot of new entrepreneurs, because my guess I guess my example would be no, they come up with what is a great product. And maybe it absolutely is a great product. Maybe it's monumental, maybe it's, you know, life changing, but they don't know how to understand. And that's a horrible way to horrible English. But they have a lack of understanding of the person to person portion of this concept, right?

Unknown Speaker 10:41
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 10:41
Can you walk us through that a little bit more? Because, you know, you told us that we need to understand them, but how do we understand them? How do I figure this thing out?

Alyson Lex 10:52
So, okay, so let's say I'm writing for a new client. And this is the easiest way to explain how to do it, because this is literally how I do it. I'm writing for a new client. And we talk about as much information as they have, but maybe they say, you know, I'm, I'm creating this fitness product, I don't know, I'm making something, I'm creating this fitness product. And it's going to go to men who are live in big cities and are over the age of 35. Well, so then my job is to go and see if I can figure out who those people really are, what they really want, and what's going to get them to go. And so I take to social media, and I take two message boards, and I look at articles that they would read. And yes, I have checked out Maxim magazine from the library I have, because you have to. And so you read what they read and go where they go and follow the same people on Facebook that they follow. And same with Twitter and just see what they're interacting with and see the language that they're using. And this is for your business. So it's worth it. Right, it's worth all of this time, and it's not going to be a quick thing, you're going to really immerse yourself. And if you have customers already see who they are, I mean, if you have to look them up on Facebook and see if you can check out their profiles, do it, see what they're taking pictures of see what they're posting, see what links they're sharing. And social media has made all of this research a whole lot easier. And then once I've done all that research, I sit, and this is where the empathy part and the imagination and kind of the what makes me awesome at what I do think, tooting my own horn here. I sit and I close my eyes. And I imagine and I put myself in their shoes, and I say okay, I'm this person, I give them a name. I say I'm you know, Joe Smith. And what am I doing right now? What's my day look like? Where am I working? What? What kind of car did I drive to work? What am I when I go home? Am I going home to a girlfriend or a dog or what? And I just imagine their life. And that helps me kind of get into their brain. That's what I do.

Unknown Speaker 13:06
But all of all of what we're talking about here kind of comes back to what goes back to this connection concept. Right? Absolutely, really starting and really being connected with because as it's been said, you know, people, people buy people, they don't buy from people, people buy from people. And that you correct me if I'm wrong in that is what we're trying to portray or place in our copy. Right?

Alyson Lex 13:33
You want your copy to feel as if you wrote it directly and only to them.

Unknown Speaker 13:38
That That in and of itself is why we need someone like you, Allison

Unknown Speaker 13:42
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 13:45
Yeah, so let's, let's talk a little bit more about kind of what you have going on, I'd love to hear a goal that you have in what you're doing to achieve that goal. Where are we going now?

Alyson Lex 13:54
So, um, well, you gave me a heads up that you were gonna ask this question. And I was like, oh, my goodness, what? What's a good goal that I can talk about? I mean, I have all kinds of random little goals. But my big goal is my husband and I purchased our house in 2012. And of course, we did like most good Americans do. And we got ourselves a nice 30 year mortgage. And I got the statement one day, and it said estimated payoff date February 2042. And I was just like, Oh, no, no, that's not going to do so my big goal is to just pay off the mortgage. And between you and me, my goal is to pay off the mortgage this year. But to keep my husband from having a total heart attack, I told him next year.

Unknown Speaker 14:39
So let me ask I think that's a great goal. I love how you I love how you put us all in into the same basket as we do with our 30 year fixed as a good as a good American. That's what we do in the world. Do you make that happen?

Alyson Lex 14:54
I'm hustling. So I have some I have private clients and we We put together a whole lot of copy campaigns. And then I also have my my second business that I alluded to earlier, ask a copy expert. And that's a membership based business. And so hustling working really, really hard and building those things up, so that I can make this big money goal.

Unknown Speaker 15:19
Is there any one or two, or maybe even three activities that help you make that a reality that help you be able to, you know, grab those extra clients, so to speak? Or maybe maybe get that higher end client? to scale on the different things your skeleton? Is there any activities that have are going to make this possible?

Alyson Lex 15:41
Yes, so um, a couple activities. One, I guess is, is another one of these habits that you like so much. And it's a habit in, in it, I'm working on it, let's just go with that. I'm really working on it. And that's to get myself with a set number of office hours, and have those hours be non negotiable. So if I'm here, in my home office at nine o'clock, I'm only here in my home office until five. And what that allows me to do is actually have some kind of work life balance, which I think is kind of a myth. For me, anyway, balance, it depends on what your idea of balances, but but just to kind of have myself a life outside of work, and not burn out. So that's really where that comes in. Something else I'm doing is I actually give away a lot of information in venues just like this, I'm happy to talk about anything I know, and help people be successful, even if that's without me. Because I believe that it'll come back. I believe that, um, you know, people who hear me and have success with something that that I've said, though, either come to me later, when they want to pay me more, or they'll come they'll refer people to me, or things like that. And, and it also it keeps me sharp. So even if I'm not writing copy, at that moment, I'm using my copy chops, and getting my name out there. And then I guess having a really good solid PR strategy that I'm sticking to. I said one time, and it was one of those little things I wish I had written down because it's a good bumper sticker, but, um, marketing, love or weight loss, if you pick something and stick to it, it usually works. So just like if you have a of diet and exercise program, sticking with it, it's going to be your biggest indicator of success. Same with marketing, if you choose blogging, just go for blogging, 100%, stick with it and learn everything you can and implement all of the strategies you can and you'll see some success with it. And so mine, of course, is podcasts. I'm choosing to use podcasts as a way to get my name out there and of course, deliver that content I mentioned. And I'm sticking with it, and it's working for me.

Unknown Speaker 18:04
So what was that one more time that was marketing, love or weight loss? If you stick to it.

Alyson Lex 18:10
Yep, marketing with marketing, love and weight loss, you pick something and stick to it, and you'll see success.

Unknown Speaker 18:15
There you go. I love it. Allison, what? You know, you mentioned the podcasting. Talk to us about that for a second because this is I mean, you know, I know for myself, when I first started listening to it, I just listened to podcasts, I didn't understand that, you know, I just was educating myself, right. But it's it actually is a complete marketing tool, a an amazing marketing Avenue, even PR, whatever we want to call it. and talk to us more about how it's worked for you.

Alyson Lex 18:48
Absolutely. So I saw an infographic just Oh, probably last week, where it showed what PR looked like 20 years ago, and it was, you know, press releases newspapers trying to get on the nightly news or CNN, NPR today is bloggers and podcasters. And all of these independent people. And so really, that's been my PR strategy. I have, I have been very, very successful with podcasts. It's it's done a lot to get my name out there. I've landed quite a few clients from podcasts. And it's a lot of fun, I get to meet a whole lot of different people give a whole lot of great information just like this one. I mean, I'm here delivering content, we've gotten to know each other, we're connected. And so it's kind of a double whammy for me. But then my goal as a guest is to come here and deliver real content and real value to your audience. You know, I mean, I'm not forcing anybody to call me. So I think part of the success is the authenticity that I'm coming into it with is um, you know, I'm not forcing anybody to hire me. I'm not asking for anything in return for this content that I'm delivering. I'm just happy to help people. Figure out how they can connect and convert just a little bit better with their audience.

Unknown Speaker 20:04
Yeah, and that the whole concept of the audience member, whoever they are, has been whatever podcast you're on a radio show you're on, is that you have pre qualified that individual, because you just spent, you know, 20 3040 an hour with that individual. Yeah, they know exactly who you are, what you're doing what you're putting out. And so even though sometimes it can be one sided conversation, like, you know, you and I, we don't hear from the audience, you know, right, right now, the audience is not literally talking to us, right? We're not getting, you know, questions from the audience. But we are literally being pre qualified or pre qualifying individuals who reach out to you after you do a show or after you get on an interview. Because they know about you, they know what you have going on, you don't need to sell yourself, they know exactly what you're up to. Right. That is one of the beauties of podcasting, and just this whole medium.

Alyson Lex 20:55
Absolutely. And I think to it, it works the other way, too. So they've trusted you to do some pre qualification of me, right? You heard me on another podcast, or you found me somewhere or I reached out to you. However, you know, however, your guest happens to get on your show, because I know that it happens in a number of ways. But you've still checked out websites, you've still looked at social profiles, you've made sure that I am who I say I am, and that I've got the goods for your audience. And so they trust you to bring really great content to them. And in turn, I'm trusting your audience to be awesome people and you know, maybe give me a like on Facebook, if they like, if they like what I see.

Unknown Speaker 21:37
There you go. Alyson, this has been a great conversation, but we're gonna take a real quick break, see what's going on outside the show. And we'll be right back. Are you having trouble consistently getting up early to make sure that you get the things you need to get done before everyone else in your household gets moving. Or maybe you find yourself continually getting stuck on social media doing the social crawl, up and down the profiles, not really accomplishing anything, if you need help staying on task so that you can move forward in your business by taking regular daily action steps. The accountability program, which I have developed here at the champion entrepreneur, is a perfect place for you. If you find yourself getting stuck and not moving anywhere, or continually sliding back in those horrible habits, you need to join the accountability program that I've developed here at the champion entrepreneur. So head on over to the website and check us out, we would be glad to help you out. It's my passion to have everyone listening to the champion entrepreneur be taking regular and consistent action steps forward. So check it out. I'm excited to start talking. Welcome back. Allison. Right before the break, we were talking about podcasting. We were talking about how we can use that for medium and different things like that. I would like to for just a quick second, kind of get back to a little bit on the copywriting side. Sure. And I want to ask, I think it's a specific question. But now as I think about it, maybe it's not totally specific. I'm just starting out, you know, I'm just beginning my business. I the way that I word this is you know, I just stood up off of the proverbial couch and said, I'm going to be my own boss. Maybe not tomorrow, but I'm going to start working towards it. How do I start this process? And Rhys flex in respects excuse me, not in reflex. But in respects to my copy, you know, maybe, maybe I have 10 people on my email list, right? How do I start this process? Maybe there's not an easy thing to answer. But is there any kind of guidance you can get? I'm at the very beginning of the process.

Alyson Lex 23:48
Yeah, so the first of all, the fact that, um, you know, people who start worrying about their copy that early are way ahead of the game, because a lot of people don't think that their copy needs attention until later down the road. Okay, but so you can have massive success with the very smallest. So you know, 10 people, 10,000 people, right, you're still going to do the research into who you your best customer is going to be right. And especially if you're just starting out and you've got 10 people, then you can totally afford the time to get on the phone with them, and have a real person to person conversation with each one of them. And that's going to catapult you further into understanding your best audience and really connecting with people than anything else. Take notes, record the conversations, do whatever you have to do, but note down the things that you can learn from each of those conversations. So you know, whether that's Hey, I would just really want to offer you a free call with me so I can answer any of your questions about insert your expertise here. And, and let's just get to know each other. I really just want to spend a little bit of time will you give me 1520 minutes And send that out as an email. It can be either an email blast through your, you know, AWeber, or Active Campaign or it can be a personal from your Gmail, whatever you want to do start connecting with your audience on a real person to person level. You can do stuff like a Google Hangout or a periscope. periscope is a great way to get real feedback with the hearts and stuff. I think blab has the hands if you if you decide to use blab, there are so many different different technologies out there that let us connect on a deeper level, and start to learn and then study some people who who are able to teach you a little bit about funnels. And really what you need. The first thing you want to do is get a lead magnet, that's a free bait offer. That's going to give somebody some really great value in exchange for them giving you their contact information. And so growing your email list should be your first priority. After going ahead and getting to know a little bit about the people already on it. You know,

Unknown Speaker 26:03
I think I think this has come out as a bit of a theme today. But it's really about the connection. Oh 100% Lee about getting to know the people, I want to write effective copy if I want to have a good email campaign drip campaign or if I want to have a my won't even probably go as far as if I want to have a good lead magnet that's actually adding value. I need to know who it is that I'm talking to. And I need to be able to be connected with those people, I need to build relationships with those people.

Alyson Lex 26:31
every relationship is the word. I mean, you know, we want to call it social media. It's really relationship media and marketing. It's relationship marketing. And people, you know, we said people buy from people. Well, that's true, but people buy from people that they know, like and trust. And that's a relationship. So um, you know, date date your customers? And maybe you know, maybe not really, I don't know, but think about what you do when you when you're dating somebody, you get to know them, you ask them questions about themselves and you you show an interest in their lives. And we are a more connected world than ever before. But I think I think this is really when people are really craving that authentic relationship.

Unknown Speaker 27:19
Did you customers, I think that's a great, that's a great as a married man, they still think that's a good, that's a great concept. Because it really teaches you you know, what are you really getting into the inside of what they have going on?

Unknown Speaker 27:32
Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 27:33
So Allison, let me ask you this question. You seem to have started your whole career out, really growing, and being mentored and being being under advice, or getting great advice, learning habits. When you broke out onto your own, you did your own thing. As you sit today? Do you still use those things? And those things being mentors, mastermind groups, you know, accountability people, other people that help you move forward?

Alyson Lex 28:00
Absolutely. So, you know, I mentioned I have a business partner, and she and I really keep each other accountable. Even if it's not work directly related to our shared business, I have a couple mastermind groups that I'm in, I've got accountability partners. I'm not currently in a coaching program. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be in one. I'm just looking for the next one to join. And so it's really, I think it's so important to continually have people in your corner and on your side that are kind of pulling for you to win. It can be really lonely out there.

Unknown Speaker 28:35
It can be really lonely out there. But you know, I'm a firm believer that it doesn't need to be shouldn't be because you should. You should be able to go and find people that you can connect with.

Alyson Lex 28:44
Oh my gosh, they're everywhere.

Unknown Speaker 28:46
That Yeah, they're everywhere. And they're seeking sometimes they might not be verbally seeking, but they have a yearning to also be connected because that's who we are. Absolutely. So Alison, it has been great to talk to you today. We could go on for a long time.

Alyson Lex 29:00
Now I feel like we could talk about everything we could.

Unknown Speaker 29:02
I'd love to know how do we get ahold of you? How do we get in contact with you and what you have going on?

Alyson Lex 29:09
Sure. So I have two websites and you can find me at both of them one is asked a copy expert calm and the other is rock your marketing calm. So ask a copy expert is is the the business I've mentioned a couple times where we help entrepreneurs have better marketing with a review process that can really be a game changer and rock your marketing is the website where you can find more about me and my done for you services and all that good stuff.

Unknown Speaker 29:39
So let's rock your marketing and ask a copy expert calm. That's right. Um, real quick before we say goodbye I love to hear kind of what's what's really got you ticking right now what's really got you excited about what's going on? Oh, what's

Alyson Lex 29:53
got me excited. Um, you know, it's so funny. I was Actually just an Entrepreneur on Fire in January. And he has launched this Freedom Journal. And it's a Kickstarter campaign and I'm so excited. I think mine is gonna come in like 10 days. And it's this 100 days to your goal and so maybe I'll move up my mortgage goal to be to be in 100 days and not not scare my husband even more but it's a whole journal and workbook and really kind of get you to spend time with yourself and I'm really excited to get that. That's got me fired up today.

Unknown Speaker 30:30
Very nice. And the he that you speak of is of course, the the infamous john Lee Dumas. Yes,

Alyson Lex 30:35
john Lee Dumas.

Unknown Speaker 30:37
We love john Lee here. He has been great and we've been Connect. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, sharing your knowledge and really sharing your expertise and in teaching us this concept or the principles of not really copywriting, but it actually is copywriting. It's, it's the con, connecting it's the relationships with other people that we need to be focusing on.

Alyson Lex 31:01
It's the step one of copy,

Unknown Speaker 31:02
it's step one a copy. So champions, thank you, champions, get out there and take an action step action does not equal accomplishment, you know that we need action in order to become accomplished. So get out there and take a step today.

Unknown Speaker 31:16
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. You can find all of the resource and guest information on the show notes page for today's episode from all of us at the champion entrepreneur podcast.com or TC e podcast comm We hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, please leave us a review and subscribe to the show. Your reviews and subscription will hopefully get the show recognized and allow us to continue providing valuable content for you to consume. If you need help or don't know how we can walk you through the process or simply go to our blog about how to subscribe and review on the website. Take your action steps today.


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