Episode 47 – The Mindset of Successful Selling with WendyY Bailey

Listen Now:

What We Talk About

It doesn’t matter what kind of client you’re meeting – whether they’re highly qualified or not-so-qualified… if you don’t have your head on straight, you might just suck at sales.

That’s why we asked WendyY Bailey to talk to us about the mindset of sales and how you can get yourself in the right place to sell successfully, authentically and with an attitude of service.

Resources

WendyY's Website

Find out more about Profitable Coaching Conversations here.

Find WendyY on Facebook
Follow WendyY on Instagram
Join The Profitable Coaching Society Facebook Group

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex
We've all had those experiences where we just kind of suck at sales, right? Like, we just can't seem to get there. And a lot of times it has less to do with our prospective clients or the leads that we're getting, and more to do with our own brain working against us, or we're not allowing ourselves to get there mentally. We knew Jenny and I knew that this was a huge problem. So when we met Wendy, why we had to have her come talk to you guys about this, because the mindset of sales is essential, if you want to be successful. So Wendy, Why thank you so much for being here with us today.

WendyY Bailey
Thank you for having me. It's always a joy to shed some light on this whole sales mindset stuff.

Alyson Lex
Stuff, exactly.

Jennie Wright
This stuff. And sometimes it can be in Allison's favorite word head trash.

WendyY Bailey
Head trash. Yes, indeed, it is.

Jennie Wright
Yeah, you can really yeah. And dive deep with that.

Alyson Lex
So yeah, let's talk about what the mindset of sales is just to

WendyY Bailey
give a nice high level overview, okay. the mindset of sales or the sales mindset. Either way you want to put it is what I call the I charge for that mindset is getting in this space mentally, where you can stand up, show up, and be confident in what you're bringing to the marketplace, what you charge for, what you're sharing in the marketplace, and how to securely safely confidently enroll your clients into working with you through your programs and services. So it's making sure you're ready to make that kind of chart that kind of path with your clients. And it's good for you. And it's good for them.

Alyson Lex
Really like how you said that it's good for you. And it's good for them. And I think realizing that it's probably the first step into getting into the right mindset, mind frame right frame of mind, however, we want to say it. Am I right? Yeah,

WendyY Bailey
you're absolutely right. The thing that I like to tell my clients is, when you are thinking of sales in a way that reflects your level of competence, your security around what you're offering, the value that you can articulate about it, all of that comes into play. And it's really about elevating your sales game. That's kind of how I put it elevate your sales game. It's also that I charge for that mindset. Too many people are out there in the marketplace doing stuff for free, or they're under charging for their services. So when I talk about the charge for that mindset, that's like at the highest level that you want to be when you are elevated in your sales game. The the first step has to be about looking at how you think of selling, if you say Oh, I hate selling, I'm just not good at it. Guess what, you're not going to be good at it and you're not gonna like selling. But if you understand that it's a necessary part of your journey as an entrepreneur sales is something that you can step into and be confident and comfortable. I don't believe in salesy, pushy, slimy sleazy. Those are all initial caps pronouns. You know, personal nouns. Those are are people that you don't want and they're not there. Unless you're that kind of person. If you're pushy, sleazy slimy salesy, then that's how you're going to show up in your sales conversations. But if you are authentic, and you're genuine, and you care, and you have compassion about what you're selling with your client, then it's going to make a difference in how you show up in your sales conversations. When you can show up as yourself, then you're far more confident as a salesperson than if you're trying to be something that you're not. So

Jennie Wright
you said a lot there that we're gonna have to sort of unpack a few layers. Yeah. One of the things that you mentioned was not being sleazy, slimy, and all those kinds of things. But, and I just want to have like a real quick sort of dialogue about this. What if you don't know, like you're so early on and your own like, this is what I find with brand new entrepreneurs, is that they don't know they're being inauthentic. They they don't know that they're coming off that way, I think, which is kind of interesting. And so when I train people in sales, it's to have a conversation versus you know, it's to try and get them out of that modality, which, gosh, you know, we just talked about this the other day, Allison and I, I bought my first sales experience and how I was inauthentic on my first sales experience, and how I sounded like a total nutbar I would have kicked me out of my own store. Like was really bad. It was super, super bad. But the question I actually want to get to and I want to ask you about is what happens when you go through a dry spell, or a period where it doesn't matter what you do when you get on a call with somebody. You just can't close the sale.

WendyY Bailey
Well, sometimes, and we all hit those dry spells, let me just say that. And if you're in a dry spell, what I found that works for me and what I share with my clients is you've got to find your way back to who you truly are. And sometimes that's about looking in the mirror and saying affirmations, sometimes that's about, you know, boning up on your craft and what you offer in the marketplace. I found that sometimes when I get into that slump, if I go back, and I listen to a coaching session that I had with a client, I'm like, Oh, you know, but I'm really smart, I got this. And it helps my my attitude. And then it helps me to step into a less than dry spell so that I can get business I can be creative about how I get business flowing again. So it's all about sort of how you view yourself when you're in that dry spell. Because oftentimes, because we're human, we start sort of downplaying our gifts and our abilities and our skills. When we're in that dry spell. We still got it going on, we just forget. And so whatever it takes to reengage with who you know you are, that's what it takes. Whatever it takes affirmations, I said affirmations, prayer, look at your vision board. I also believe that you know, listening to your your old stuff, looking at your old writing, looking at articles, because they end up serving you well, too. So whatever it takes for you to get back in that right headspace. And get rid of the head trash, as you call it, Allison. And then also paying attention to who your ideal client is. Because sometimes we get in a dry spell because we're trying to talk to and reach and connect with the wrong client. And so it's revisiting who that avatar is for you. And sort of regrouping and recommitting to ways that will allow you to connect with them.

Jennie Wright
I found there's a couple things I want to say here. But and Allison's probably going to chime in and bring it Allison cuz I know you got some stuff. When I there's two things that I've done in my sales career. Previously, I did cold calling, I was actually given a little cards and it had a person's name, business, business address, phone number, and the approximate size of the business how much money they were making. My job was to cold call them and sell them into a wholesale membership for this particular wholesale retailer.

WendyY Bailey
And

Jennie Wright
you would go through easily 100 cards a day making all these phone calls. And by the end of the day, your script or what you would say to these people was if you weren't good, was different at the end of the day than it was in the beginning and you were exhausted. And one of the things that that taught me that I've brought into this part of my sales career, this career, this entrepreneurial career is a reset button. And I use it you call it whatever you want, whatever you need, I use a reset button. And that every single call is a brand new fresh opportunity. And I try and just repaint the canvas and use whatever modality you need. I call it the reset button or repainting the canvas. And I just try and start from an absolute zero. Because if I start from the fact that the person before them said no. And the person before that said no, then I'm already expecting the No. And I'm already talking almost in a defensive mode versus that receptive mode of listening and intaking, which allows me to be better at sales, does that sort of coincide with what you're trying to say?

WendyY Bailey
It totally coincides with what I'm trying to say I think that what you're describing is understanding that everybody has a new opportunity to engage in a commerce sales conversation with and when you think of it that way, you're not bringing all that head trash and that baggage from the previous calls with you into other calls. I also think that that when you know your ideal client, and I like to say intimately Well, you know, what kinds of things you can anticipate and you can expect them to say or do in the sales conversation. You're already rehearsed, if you will, that it sounds harsh, but you need to be rehearsed in your response to objections, so that you know how to address those objections. And when you're rehearsed, it doesn't mean you're following some rigid script, it means you've thought about it, you have considered how they may respond. You've written down your responses that are very authentic and genuine to who you are, so that you're saying whatever you need to do in your language in a way that's real for you. And then when you have mastered that, when it happens in the actual conversation, it comes across genuine and authentic and it's not canned. Okay, I'm not saying write some can script. What I'm saying is get familiar with your client so that you know how to address their concerns, their fears that are also known as objections when they surface

Alyson Lex
You are speaking my language right now, this knowing your client intimately thing, it's the same thing goes for sales copy, you have to do the same thing.

WendyY Bailey
Yep. And what I tell people, Allison is that your sales copy is really an extension of the sales conversation. It's a type of sales conversation. Because when you write copy, and I know you love writing copy, when you write copy, you're actually engaging in a dialogue with the person who's reading that copy, that person who's reading that copy is still your ideal client. And based on that you want to be in conversation, you want to know what they need, you want to talk to them and speak to them based on who they are and where they are. And you can't get there if you don't know your ideal client really well.

Alyson Lex
I have big cartoon hearts on my eyeballs right now. I love it. And so, you know, let's dive into that a little bit more. Because I do feel like that's something that a lot of people miss is this intimate knowledge of your people? And if we're just starting out, or we're going into a new niche, or we just haven't done the work? How do we? How do we learn that?

WendyY Bailey
Well, you have to sit down, and you have to really, really think about it. It's not just about saying, You know what, I think these people will like my product, or my program or my service. So I'm going to work with them. Well, what you really want to do is focus on one ideal client, I call it ideal client clarity and the power of one, one ideal client, just one, one core problem, just one and one comprehensive solution, just one, so the power of one in every case, and you spend the time you invest the time and energy and getting to know that one ideal client, you need to know psychographics, you need to know demographics. And when I say psychographics, I'm talking about how they think how they typically buy the things that you use, sell how what you know about them, what they read, where they play, what kinds of events they connect to what other kind of services they need, all of the psychographics and demographics will help you to get clarity about how you can can really connect to them and speak to them. When I talk about demographics. It doesn't need to be male or female, you need to choose one. Because the way you communicate with women is different than the way you communicate with men, let's let's just say it clearly, it's different. You also need to not have this huge age range, you can't talk to a 20 year old the same way you talk to a 16 year old, so fine tune it and narrow that range down so that you know you're speaking to a 40 or 50 year old, or you know you're speaking to a 35 to 45 year old. Because what happens is, there's a language, there's a culture that goes with that particular age range. And you need to be able to communicate that, as I said to you, as I said to you before, when I think about sales copy, I think it is a form of a sales conversation. So the same thing that you're doing in your copy by really getting intimately knowledgeable about your ideal client, you apply that same thing to your conversation that is one on one, your conversation that is a one to many, your conversation, as I said before in your sales, copy your conversation, in your any kind of presentation you do speaking from the stage doing a webinar or doing a virtual summit, it's all sales conversation, and you apply that same tactic.

Alyson Lex
You You mentioned psychographics, and demographics. And I actually break them up into four. So you have the demographic information, which is the who, you know, man, woman age, all that. Then the social, which is the what they like and what they love, what books they read, do they have pets, relational how they've interacted with you in the past, and then psychological conclusions, which is that deeper stuff. And that's the part that I find that most people do not get to think of figuring out their ideal client based on how they would target them with an ad. But if you want to convert them, and I'm learning that it's whether it's in a sales conversation or with a copy, sales conversation, so spoken or written sales conversation, you've got to know that deep down stuff, and I summarize it with what is the problem that they have, that they're willing to pay someone hopefully you to solve? Mm hmm.

WendyY Bailey
Yeah. I love it. I'm so on the money. You're on the Money, I gotta tell you, and the thing that that most people don't understand. And I say this a lot. And whenever I say it, I see the light bulbs go off over people's heads, your ideal client is always, always, always ready, willing and able to invest in themselves by hiring you, your ideal client is. So if you got people that you're haggling over your fees with, they're not your ideal client, keep it moving. If you've got people that they are somehow challenging you on your qualification to do what you do, they're not your ideal client, your ideal client treats you in a particular way, your ideal client recognizes your expertise in a particular way. And you're the people who are not your ideal client, they don't see it that way. So outside of that, they're not your ideal client. Okay, so it's all about recognizing how they treat you, which is sort of that relational. And it's also the, what people are willing to pay for. But it's also recognizing that the people who fall outside of that you need to stop running after them, you need to stop chasing them, you need to stop expecting that they're going to do business with you, when their job is to do business with the people that they are the ideal client for and maybe that's not you, just like the people who are your ideal client are just for you and not for somebody else. I love that.

Jennie Wright
It's very intuitive. It's exactly how I like to look at sales. I think it's fantastic. So I have a question for you. And I want to get your take on it. Because I really love your your opinion. Do you believe that there is a difference in the way that we should approach sales? For a low ticket item versus a high ticket item? Is it the same conversation if I'm trying to sell a $297 course, versus a $15,000 package?

WendyY Bailey
Um, I think they're similar. But I think the $15,000 package requires some in depth, connection, rapport and communication and trust, that you may not necessarily need for somebody to buy something that's 297. You know, we live in a day and time where 297 seems pretty normal 15,000 may seem like a stretch for people in today's economy in the marketplace and everything, they've got a trust you like, you never thought they could to invest $15,000. So I hear people talk a lot about the know like trust factor. I say there's a no like trust and experience factor. The more you give people an opportunity to experience your your gifts to trust you to, you know, connect with your constancy and consistency and you know, depth of knowledge and wisdom and ability to solve their problem, which is a long game, not a short game, the closer you will be to converting someone into a $15,000 program.

Alyson Lex
Danny and I talk about the long game a lot. She is really, really good at that long game. And what's more, if she doesn't treat it like a long game. So I think really understanding that we're calling it the long game, which can sound when we're talking just between experts and business owners, it can feel kind of manipulative when you're looking at it from the customer side, right? Like they're playing the long game on me. But it's not it's about authentically generated or developing that relationship and generating that experience and that trust. Of course, there's an idea for sales in it. We're a business, that's what we do. But you are really, you're building those relationships in an effort to better their world.

WendyY Bailey
Yep. Yep. And I think that's important. Yeah. And I think I think you you hit on something when you said that, because there are five objections that were coined by, you know, the original sales guys Zig Ziglar. And they go like this. The objection is they lack the time they lack the need, they lack the money, which is not usually about money. They disbelieve in you and they disbelieve in your ability to solve their problems. So every objection boils down into those five areas. And what I've seen so many times when you're in that space, where you are getting to the know, like trust experience, and folks are really trusting you and they're believing you and they're seeing you. It boils down to value. It boils down to value, whether it's the 297 or the $15,000. It's about the value that you You can really lend to whatever's going on with them, we talked a lot about the core problem, the problem that we want to solve for our ideal clients and that kind of thing. But solving it is only part of it, you've also got to be able to articulate the value that you're going to bring that is going to solve that problem that's not about, you know, how many more widgets it has in it, it's not about you know, how many more pieces of paper you add to the program, or whatever it truly is about how does this get them closer to what they view as the real value that you can learn to them is that, you know, freedom style lifestyle is that, you know, more money in the bank is that more time with their, their family, whatever it is, that's value to them, and you have to be able to articulate that value. And all of that boils down into how you address those objections when they surface. Rarely Is it about the money. I said that a second, but let me tell you what I mean, it really, truly is about the priority, financial priority that they have, for whatever you're offering them. Case in point, if you have someone and their house is burning down, the first thing they want is someone that's going to help them put out their house fire, right. But if they are looking for, they're not at that time looking for somebody who can drive their car, they're not at that time looking for somebody who can manage their money they have their immediate need is somebody who helped put out for high house fire. And so you have to look at financial priority and be able to recognize it so that you can connect to the value that your client is looking for at that time, and how you can bring that value to them. Does that make sense?

Alyson Lex
makes so much sense. Okay. All the sense? Yes, I say this a lot too. So really sales and sales copy have a lot of interrelated lessons. And I'm learning from you. And I'm hoping our listeners are learning to apply this stuff to your sales copy to guys because it really is huge. So I want to switch gears because I did. I did a little bit of light stalking I got a little creepy. Okay, now your website and I saw that you mentioned an upcoming course, a new course profitable coaching conversations, which I think is probably in depth about what we've been talking about here today. Am I right?

WendyY Bailey
Very much. So yeah, very much. So it's understanding the language of selling and applying like buying behavior, buying decisions, overcoming objections, and all of it into a way that you can get those rehearsed scripts, you can identify what what's really going on with your client. And then you can create a conversation that's real and authentic for you, and get comfortable and confident wearing it like a new outfit. So that when you're in the sales conversation, whether it is your sales copy, or you're actually in a one to many or one on one conversation, you know exactly where you stand, you know exactly what to say and you're prepared to let's go back to her for a second to showcase value to recognize help them recognize the value you're going to bring to them.

Alyson Lex
That sounds so cool. Where can we find out more about that?

WendyY Bailey
Well, it's new it's just coming out is called profitable coaching conversations. And it's named after my actual it's my flagship brand is named after my podcast is well, and they can find more information at profitable coaching conversations dot online.

Alyson Lex
Perfect. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna put a link to that in our Show Notes for this episode. Okay. And I would also love to include links to your website and your socials and stuff like that if I can, but quick, give us a rundown where we can find you.

WendyY Bailey
Well, first of all on social media, I'm Wendy why Bailey with an extra y in between, on all platforms. Wendy, what? Bailey my main website is business beyond limits.com. You can also learn more about my podcast at profitable coaching conversations.com lots of places to connect with me and I and I hope you will.

Alyson Lex
I know that I'm going to already if I'm not already, I'm going to be connected in about five minutes. So I hope everybody will go check it out. On social on our website. Again, the links to everything will be in our Show Notes for this episode. So you can find that at System to thrive.com. When do you think Wendy why I miss the extra why everybody there's an extra Why? And I've flown through it twice now. I'm so sorry about that. Wendy, why. Thank you so much for coming and joining us.

WendyY Bailey
Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

Alyson Lex
All right, if you're listening, thank you so much for being here. Please be sure to subscribe and if you feel called, leave us a review. We love honest reviews. Thanks for listening and we'll be back with another big question. Next time.

Listen Now:

What We Talk About

It doesn’t matter what kind of client you’re meeting – whether they’re highly qualified or not-so-qualified… if you don’t have your head on straight, you might just suck at sales.

That’s why we asked WendyY Bailey to talk to us about the mindset of sales and how you can get yourself in the right place to sell successfully, authentically and with an attitude of service.

Resources

WendyY's Website

Find out more about Profitable Coaching Conversations here.

Find WendyY on Facebook
Follow WendyY on Instagram
Join The Profitable Coaching Society Facebook Group

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex
We've all had those experiences where we just kind of suck at sales, right? Like, we just can't seem to get there. And a lot of times it has less to do with our prospective clients or the leads that we're getting, and more to do with our own brain working against us, or we're not allowing ourselves to get there mentally. We knew Jenny and I knew that this was a huge problem. So when we met Wendy, why we had to have her come talk to you guys about this, because the mindset of sales is essential, if you want to be successful. So Wendy, Why thank you so much for being here with us today.

WendyY Bailey
Thank you for having me. It's always a joy to shed some light on this whole sales mindset stuff.

Alyson Lex
Stuff, exactly.

Jennie Wright
This stuff. And sometimes it can be in Allison's favorite word head trash.

WendyY Bailey
Head trash. Yes, indeed, it is.

Jennie Wright
Yeah, you can really yeah. And dive deep with that.

Alyson Lex
So yeah, let's talk about what the mindset of sales is just to

WendyY Bailey
give a nice high level overview, okay. the mindset of sales or the sales mindset. Either way you want to put it is what I call the I charge for that mindset is getting in this space mentally, where you can stand up, show up, and be confident in what you're bringing to the marketplace, what you charge for, what you're sharing in the marketplace, and how to securely safely confidently enroll your clients into working with you through your programs and services. So it's making sure you're ready to make that kind of chart that kind of path with your clients. And it's good for you. And it's good for them.

Alyson Lex
Really like how you said that it's good for you. And it's good for them. And I think realizing that it's probably the first step into getting into the right mindset, mind frame right frame of mind, however, we want to say it. Am I right? Yeah,

WendyY Bailey
you're absolutely right. The thing that I like to tell my clients is, when you are thinking of sales in a way that reflects your level of competence, your security around what you're offering, the value that you can articulate about it, all of that comes into play. And it's really about elevating your sales game. That's kind of how I put it elevate your sales game. It's also that I charge for that mindset. Too many people are out there in the marketplace doing stuff for free, or they're under charging for their services. So when I talk about the charge for that mindset, that's like at the highest level that you want to be when you are elevated in your sales game. The the first step has to be about looking at how you think of selling, if you say Oh, I hate selling, I'm just not good at it. Guess what, you're not going to be good at it and you're not gonna like selling. But if you understand that it's a necessary part of your journey as an entrepreneur sales is something that you can step into and be confident and comfortable. I don't believe in salesy, pushy, slimy sleazy. Those are all initial caps pronouns. You know, personal nouns. Those are are people that you don't want and they're not there. Unless you're that kind of person. If you're pushy, sleazy slimy salesy, then that's how you're going to show up in your sales conversations. But if you are authentic, and you're genuine, and you care, and you have compassion about what you're selling with your client, then it's going to make a difference in how you show up in your sales conversations. When you can show up as yourself, then you're far more confident as a salesperson than if you're trying to be something that you're not. So

Jennie Wright
you said a lot there that we're gonna have to sort of unpack a few layers. Yeah. One of the things that you mentioned was not being sleazy, slimy, and all those kinds of things. But, and I just want to have like a real quick sort of dialogue about this. What if you don't know, like you're so early on and your own like, this is what I find with brand new entrepreneurs, is that they don't know they're being inauthentic. They they don't know that they're coming off that way, I think, which is kind of interesting. And so when I train people in sales, it's to have a conversation versus you know, it's to try and get them out of that modality, which, gosh, you know, we just talked about this the other day, Allison and I, I bought my first sales experience and how I was inauthentic on my first sales experience, and how I sounded like a total nutbar I would have kicked me out of my own store. Like was really bad. It was super, super bad. But the question I actually want to get to and I want to ask you about is what happens when you go through a dry spell, or a period where it doesn't matter what you do when you get on a call with somebody. You just can't close the sale.

WendyY Bailey
Well, sometimes, and we all hit those dry spells, let me just say that. And if you're in a dry spell, what I found that works for me and what I share with my clients is you've got to find your way back to who you truly are. And sometimes that's about looking in the mirror and saying affirmations, sometimes that's about, you know, boning up on your craft and what you offer in the marketplace. I found that sometimes when I get into that slump, if I go back, and I listen to a coaching session that I had with a client, I'm like, Oh, you know, but I'm really smart, I got this. And it helps my my attitude. And then it helps me to step into a less than dry spell so that I can get business I can be creative about how I get business flowing again. So it's all about sort of how you view yourself when you're in that dry spell. Because oftentimes, because we're human, we start sort of downplaying our gifts and our abilities and our skills. When we're in that dry spell. We still got it going on, we just forget. And so whatever it takes to reengage with who you know you are, that's what it takes. Whatever it takes affirmations, I said affirmations, prayer, look at your vision board. I also believe that you know, listening to your your old stuff, looking at your old writing, looking at articles, because they end up serving you well, too. So whatever it takes for you to get back in that right headspace. And get rid of the head trash, as you call it, Allison. And then also paying attention to who your ideal client is. Because sometimes we get in a dry spell because we're trying to talk to and reach and connect with the wrong client. And so it's revisiting who that avatar is for you. And sort of regrouping and recommitting to ways that will allow you to connect with them.

Jennie Wright
I found there's a couple things I want to say here. But and Allison's probably going to chime in and bring it Allison cuz I know you got some stuff. When I there's two things that I've done in my sales career. Previously, I did cold calling, I was actually given a little cards and it had a person's name, business, business address, phone number, and the approximate size of the business how much money they were making. My job was to cold call them and sell them into a wholesale membership for this particular wholesale retailer.

WendyY Bailey
And

Jennie Wright
you would go through easily 100 cards a day making all these phone calls. And by the end of the day, your script or what you would say to these people was if you weren't good, was different at the end of the day than it was in the beginning and you were exhausted. And one of the things that that taught me that I've brought into this part of my sales career, this career, this entrepreneurial career is a reset button. And I use it you call it whatever you want, whatever you need, I use a reset button. And that every single call is a brand new fresh opportunity. And I try and just repaint the canvas and use whatever modality you need. I call it the reset button or repainting the canvas. And I just try and start from an absolute zero. Because if I start from the fact that the person before them said no. And the person before that said no, then I'm already expecting the No. And I'm already talking almost in a defensive mode versus that receptive mode of listening and intaking, which allows me to be better at sales, does that sort of coincide with what you're trying to say?

WendyY Bailey
It totally coincides with what I'm trying to say I think that what you're describing is understanding that everybody has a new opportunity to engage in a commerce sales conversation with and when you think of it that way, you're not bringing all that head trash and that baggage from the previous calls with you into other calls. I also think that that when you know your ideal client, and I like to say intimately Well, you know, what kinds of things you can anticipate and you can expect them to say or do in the sales conversation. You're already rehearsed, if you will, that it sounds harsh, but you need to be rehearsed in your response to objections, so that you know how to address those objections. And when you're rehearsed, it doesn't mean you're following some rigid script, it means you've thought about it, you have considered how they may respond. You've written down your responses that are very authentic and genuine to who you are, so that you're saying whatever you need to do in your language in a way that's real for you. And then when you have mastered that, when it happens in the actual conversation, it comes across genuine and authentic and it's not canned. Okay, I'm not saying write some can script. What I'm saying is get familiar with your client so that you know how to address their concerns, their fears that are also known as objections when they surface

Alyson Lex
You are speaking my language right now, this knowing your client intimately thing, it's the same thing goes for sales copy, you have to do the same thing.

WendyY Bailey
Yep. And what I tell people, Allison is that your sales copy is really an extension of the sales conversation. It's a type of sales conversation. Because when you write copy, and I know you love writing copy, when you write copy, you're actually engaging in a dialogue with the person who's reading that copy, that person who's reading that copy is still your ideal client. And based on that you want to be in conversation, you want to know what they need, you want to talk to them and speak to them based on who they are and where they are. And you can't get there if you don't know your ideal client really well.

Alyson Lex
I have big cartoon hearts on my eyeballs right now. I love it. And so, you know, let's dive into that a little bit more. Because I do feel like that's something that a lot of people miss is this intimate knowledge of your people? And if we're just starting out, or we're going into a new niche, or we just haven't done the work? How do we? How do we learn that?

WendyY Bailey
Well, you have to sit down, and you have to really, really think about it. It's not just about saying, You know what, I think these people will like my product, or my program or my service. So I'm going to work with them. Well, what you really want to do is focus on one ideal client, I call it ideal client clarity and the power of one, one ideal client, just one, one core problem, just one and one comprehensive solution, just one, so the power of one in every case, and you spend the time you invest the time and energy and getting to know that one ideal client, you need to know psychographics, you need to know demographics. And when I say psychographics, I'm talking about how they think how they typically buy the things that you use, sell how what you know about them, what they read, where they play, what kinds of events they connect to what other kind of services they need, all of the psychographics and demographics will help you to get clarity about how you can can really connect to them and speak to them. When I talk about demographics. It doesn't need to be male or female, you need to choose one. Because the way you communicate with women is different than the way you communicate with men, let's let's just say it clearly, it's different. You also need to not have this huge age range, you can't talk to a 20 year old the same way you talk to a 16 year old, so fine tune it and narrow that range down so that you know you're speaking to a 40 or 50 year old, or you know you're speaking to a 35 to 45 year old. Because what happens is, there's a language, there's a culture that goes with that particular age range. And you need to be able to communicate that, as I said to you, as I said to you before, when I think about sales copy, I think it is a form of a sales conversation. So the same thing that you're doing in your copy by really getting intimately knowledgeable about your ideal client, you apply that same thing to your conversation that is one on one, your conversation that is a one to many, your conversation, as I said before in your sales, copy your conversation, in your any kind of presentation you do speaking from the stage doing a webinar or doing a virtual summit, it's all sales conversation, and you apply that same tactic.

Alyson Lex
You You mentioned psychographics, and demographics. And I actually break them up into four. So you have the demographic information, which is the who, you know, man, woman age, all that. Then the social, which is the what they like and what they love, what books they read, do they have pets, relational how they've interacted with you in the past, and then psychological conclusions, which is that deeper stuff. And that's the part that I find that most people do not get to think of figuring out their ideal client based on how they would target them with an ad. But if you want to convert them, and I'm learning that it's whether it's in a sales conversation or with a copy, sales conversation, so spoken or written sales conversation, you've got to know that deep down stuff, and I summarize it with what is the problem that they have, that they're willing to pay someone hopefully you to solve? Mm hmm.

WendyY Bailey
Yeah. I love it. I'm so on the money. You're on the Money, I gotta tell you, and the thing that that most people don't understand. And I say this a lot. And whenever I say it, I see the light bulbs go off over people's heads, your ideal client is always, always, always ready, willing and able to invest in themselves by hiring you, your ideal client is. So if you got people that you're haggling over your fees with, they're not your ideal client, keep it moving. If you've got people that they are somehow challenging you on your qualification to do what you do, they're not your ideal client, your ideal client treats you in a particular way, your ideal client recognizes your expertise in a particular way. And you're the people who are not your ideal client, they don't see it that way. So outside of that, they're not your ideal client. Okay, so it's all about recognizing how they treat you, which is sort of that relational. And it's also the, what people are willing to pay for. But it's also recognizing that the people who fall outside of that you need to stop running after them, you need to stop chasing them, you need to stop expecting that they're going to do business with you, when their job is to do business with the people that they are the ideal client for and maybe that's not you, just like the people who are your ideal client are just for you and not for somebody else. I love that.

Jennie Wright
It's very intuitive. It's exactly how I like to look at sales. I think it's fantastic. So I have a question for you. And I want to get your take on it. Because I really love your your opinion. Do you believe that there is a difference in the way that we should approach sales? For a low ticket item versus a high ticket item? Is it the same conversation if I'm trying to sell a $297 course, versus a $15,000 package?

WendyY Bailey
Um, I think they're similar. But I think the $15,000 package requires some in depth, connection, rapport and communication and trust, that you may not necessarily need for somebody to buy something that's 297. You know, we live in a day and time where 297 seems pretty normal 15,000 may seem like a stretch for people in today's economy in the marketplace and everything, they've got a trust you like, you never thought they could to invest $15,000. So I hear people talk a lot about the know like trust factor. I say there's a no like trust and experience factor. The more you give people an opportunity to experience your your gifts to trust you to, you know, connect with your constancy and consistency and you know, depth of knowledge and wisdom and ability to solve their problem, which is a long game, not a short game, the closer you will be to converting someone into a $15,000 program.

Alyson Lex
Danny and I talk about the long game a lot. She is really, really good at that long game. And what's more, if she doesn't treat it like a long game. So I think really understanding that we're calling it the long game, which can sound when we're talking just between experts and business owners, it can feel kind of manipulative when you're looking at it from the customer side, right? Like they're playing the long game on me. But it's not it's about authentically generated or developing that relationship and generating that experience and that trust. Of course, there's an idea for sales in it. We're a business, that's what we do. But you are really, you're building those relationships in an effort to better their world.

WendyY Bailey
Yep. Yep. And I think that's important. Yeah. And I think I think you you hit on something when you said that, because there are five objections that were coined by, you know, the original sales guys Zig Ziglar. And they go like this. The objection is they lack the time they lack the need, they lack the money, which is not usually about money. They disbelieve in you and they disbelieve in your ability to solve their problems. So every objection boils down into those five areas. And what I've seen so many times when you're in that space, where you are getting to the know, like trust experience, and folks are really trusting you and they're believing you and they're seeing you. It boils down to value. It boils down to value, whether it's the 297 or the $15,000. It's about the value that you You can really lend to whatever's going on with them, we talked a lot about the core problem, the problem that we want to solve for our ideal clients and that kind of thing. But solving it is only part of it, you've also got to be able to articulate the value that you're going to bring that is going to solve that problem that's not about, you know, how many more widgets it has in it, it's not about you know, how many more pieces of paper you add to the program, or whatever it truly is about how does this get them closer to what they view as the real value that you can learn to them is that, you know, freedom style lifestyle is that, you know, more money in the bank is that more time with their, their family, whatever it is, that's value to them, and you have to be able to articulate that value. And all of that boils down into how you address those objections when they surface. Rarely Is it about the money. I said that a second, but let me tell you what I mean, it really, truly is about the priority, financial priority that they have, for whatever you're offering them. Case in point, if you have someone and their house is burning down, the first thing they want is someone that's going to help them put out their house fire, right. But if they are looking for, they're not at that time looking for somebody who can drive their car, they're not at that time looking for somebody who can manage their money they have their immediate need is somebody who helped put out for high house fire. And so you have to look at financial priority and be able to recognize it so that you can connect to the value that your client is looking for at that time, and how you can bring that value to them. Does that make sense?

Alyson Lex
makes so much sense. Okay. All the sense? Yes, I say this a lot too. So really sales and sales copy have a lot of interrelated lessons. And I'm learning from you. And I'm hoping our listeners are learning to apply this stuff to your sales copy to guys because it really is huge. So I want to switch gears because I did. I did a little bit of light stalking I got a little creepy. Okay, now your website and I saw that you mentioned an upcoming course, a new course profitable coaching conversations, which I think is probably in depth about what we've been talking about here today. Am I right?

WendyY Bailey
Very much. So yeah, very much. So it's understanding the language of selling and applying like buying behavior, buying decisions, overcoming objections, and all of it into a way that you can get those rehearsed scripts, you can identify what what's really going on with your client. And then you can create a conversation that's real and authentic for you, and get comfortable and confident wearing it like a new outfit. So that when you're in the sales conversation, whether it is your sales copy, or you're actually in a one to many or one on one conversation, you know exactly where you stand, you know exactly what to say and you're prepared to let's go back to her for a second to showcase value to recognize help them recognize the value you're going to bring to them.

Alyson Lex
That sounds so cool. Where can we find out more about that?

WendyY Bailey
Well, it's new it's just coming out is called profitable coaching conversations. And it's named after my actual it's my flagship brand is named after my podcast is well, and they can find more information at profitable coaching conversations dot online.

Alyson Lex
Perfect. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna put a link to that in our Show Notes for this episode. Okay. And I would also love to include links to your website and your socials and stuff like that if I can, but quick, give us a rundown where we can find you.

WendyY Bailey
Well, first of all on social media, I'm Wendy why Bailey with an extra y in between, on all platforms. Wendy, what? Bailey my main website is business beyond limits.com. You can also learn more about my podcast at profitable coaching conversations.com lots of places to connect with me and I and I hope you will.

Alyson Lex
I know that I'm going to already if I'm not already, I'm going to be connected in about five minutes. So I hope everybody will go check it out. On social on our website. Again, the links to everything will be in our Show Notes for this episode. So you can find that at System to thrive.com. When do you think Wendy why I miss the extra why everybody there's an extra Why? And I've flown through it twice now. I'm so sorry about that. Wendy, why. Thank you so much for coming and joining us.

WendyY Bailey
Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

Alyson Lex
All right, if you're listening, thank you so much for being here. Please be sure to subscribe and if you feel called, leave us a review. We love honest reviews. Thanks for listening and we'll be back with another big question. Next time.


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