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The very idea of a list build might be overwhelming to you – but what SHOULDN’T be overwhelming is choosing what list build you’re going to use in the first place.

In this episode, Jennie & Alyson will break down the main kinds of list builds, when to use them, and why you should choose each type of list build depending on your goals… plus how you might be able to use them all together to reach your maximum potential.

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Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex
We've talked a lot about why you should build your list. We have talked about how to maximize the results from building your list, we have talked about how to plan a list, build and still run your business, which is an actual episode, we will link in the show notes. But what we haven't really talked about yet is how to choose the way that you're going to build your list. And this is almost as important as the list build itself. Because choosing the wrong style, based on what we're going to talk about today, can either set you back from your goals, or leave you feeling overwhelmed or unfulfilled by your results. So we are going to talk about how to know that you're ready, we're going to talk about the different types of list builds that you can choose from. And then we're going to talk about exactly how to pick which one you're going to use. If you're ready to grow your audience for whatever reason, it is probably time for list build, right, Jenny,

Jennie Wright
if you're starting to think about it, it's already past that time. So if you've already started thinking about it, then you're do if it's not even on your radar yet, if it's nothing that you know that you have to do, you still need to be, you still need to build your list, and you're probably ready and you just don't know it yet.

Alyson Lex
So when you know that you need to get more people in your audience to meet your sales goals. It's time to grow your list, it's time to have a list build. If you've kind of already tapped out your network, the referrals aren't coming in to meet your expectations or your needs or your goals. It's time for list build, it's important that you have a process in place to handle those new leads. So that you can maximize the results that you get a one on be really clear on that because depending on the list build that you choose, and we'll talk about that in a minute. Depending on the list built you choose, you could get a whole ton of new leads all at one time. And if you don't have a way to handle that, if you don't have a process in place to manage that, you're not gonna be able to leverage them

Jennie Wright
thoroughly something that you said there that makes a lot of sense that I want to call a little bit of attention to, which is making sure that you're ready to receive those leads. By looking to what you already have in terms of an infrastructure in your business. And making sure that there's no huge gaps. Sometimes you might have, you might want to do a list build, and we'll talk about all the different types shortly. But if you want to do a list build, and you're currently using the free version of MailChimp and you're building using, they're very simple and very basic page builder, I think they have like half a dozen templates, it's just super basic. If you're planning on doing a list build with those particular, you know those particular items, you're going to run into trouble in the future. Because as much as MailChimp is not a bad software as a beginner, it doesn't have all the functionality that you need as you start to grow your business over time. And there pagebuilder as easy it is for the non tech people is not going to be sufficient to sell programs, products and courses and all those things, you're going to need a more robust setup. Allison and I are huge believers in creating a tech stack versus not. And we're not going to go too deeply into that because this is how to know that style of Lisp that you need to do. But we're just giving you a little side. advices is like you know, almost like me whispering in your ear in the corner going, Hey, by the way, when you do this, you kind of need this stuff. So take a look at what your tech stack is and make sure it's ready for a list build. Okay, now I'm done my little soapbox. Let's get back to how to know if you're ready for list.

Alyson Lex
Jenny can help herself she has to give tech advice anywhere she can. The other time you're probably ready for less build is when you are preparing to launch a new product, a new service or a new business. And you want to build up your audience before that launch or as part of that launch. And this is really one of the most common reasons we see less belts down especially with our clients. That they're ready to go bigger. They're scaling, which we've talked about in the past, or they're introducing something new and they want kind of fresh blood, if you will on their list in order to really get the results they want from that product service or business launch. The other reason you might do a list build and that you're ready for a list build is that you've done one before. And this is really one that people forget, they think a list build is a one and done type of situation that it's only good if you're preparing to launch, or it's only good if they want to quick boost. But you can actually create lists, build events and list builds that are part of your regular business strategy. And they should be because you're consistently getting those new leads in, you're consistently creating excitement, you're consistently creating buzz, and that consistency is what's going to pay off. Like what the big guys have done. Yep,

Jennie Wright
it's all it all compounds over time, right? And not one less bill, you shouldn't just do one type of list build over the duration of, say, a year or even six months, we're going to talk about the styles that you should have in place, this is going to help you get an understanding, right. So the first thing that we'll talk about is let's talk about the different types of lis belts, and see what's out there. And as we talk about this, I want you to see which one sparks a little joy inside of you a little excitement makes you go Ooh, what's that, and I want you to put away your preconceived notions. If you've heard that something is really hard, or it doesn't work well anymore, or it's so passe. I want you to put that in a trash can close the lid and forget about it. Because the popular opinions on which list builds work and don't work, or just that they're just popular opinions. And they don't actually speak to the results that you can get. I want to paraphrase I want to like, pre talk about this a little bit on why this is something that Allison and I can talk to as experts, Allison and I have been helping people build lists, collectively for over 20 years. Allison does it with her strategy, her high conversion copy in terms of the pages that she writes and everything else. And she has amazing strategy. She's also done list building herself. And on my side, I've been doing this as a service to my clients, ever since I started. And I've done over 300 summits. And I've done hundreds of webinars and challenges and giveaways, you name it, I've done it. So there's there's a wealth of experience that's coming. This is not to people who just ran a list build like two weeks ago. And now we're suddenly like nouveau experts telling you how to do your stuff.

Alyson Lex
So I really like that differentiation. By the way, we didn't just read a book on this. We were staying on holiday and we're talking about, we have some incredible results that we'd be happy to share with you. We're not going to take up time here. 82% opt in rate. But we really we have spent time, effort, energy, money attention on not just doing this for our clients, but also seeing what's out there. And really understanding what others are doing breaking it down. We talk about this all the time, if you would see our Facebook Messenger conversation. It's like a link and Hey, what do you think of this? Oh, I like what they're doing here. Blah, blah, blah, we make notes on things, we really have created best practices for just about every type of Lisp belt there is. Okay, so I want to break this down because there are two categories of list built. Category number one is a list build event. And category number two is an evergreen or always on list build. Okay, so your list build event is a one time time limited event based opportunity for people to connect with you. summit challenge webinar giveaway, that kind of thing. You're always on list build, or your video series, your lead magnets, maybe your webinar replays your PDFs your free chapter of your book, whatever you're giving away that you can always give away. I have always on lead magnets. There I have a bunch of them.

Jennie Wright
Everybody always should. And and the beginning we should and in the beginning you're not going to But as you grow, you should. And I sort of have a rule of thumb, I like to have two or even three always on lead magnets, but that fit different kinds of situations for different kinds of people. One that I'll use for podcasting, one that's specific for the newbies, one that's specific to people who are a little bit further on. So it all depends, but it's good. And as you grow, you will you can create these don't think that you have to create them all at once. But you can have these so that you can use them interchangeably wherever you need them.

Alyson Lex
Yeah, my wife, I used to just have one always on lead magnet. And then I created another one that I had to. And then I created another one, then I had three, then I created another one, I technically have like four or five, and I don't use a couple of them. And just like Jenny said, she picks different audiences, you can also look at different topics. So I have one on sales pages. I have one on headlines, I have one on email subjects, all of those, then if I'm speaking on something specific, I can choose which one I'm promoting. We're not going to go too deep into that. Yeah.

Jennie Wright
Let's maybe break down. What do you think Allison, let's maybe break down the different styles of this builds just so they understand what they are. We said what they were, but we haven't really said what they are?

Alyson Lex
Yes, yes. So I want to talk and really focus on the event based list builds. Sure. Because the always ons that could be a whole podcast series on its own

Jennie Wright
ideas,

Unknown Speaker
ideas.

Jennie Wright
So let's talk about it. Let's talk about some some. Let's talk about summit's challenges, webinars, slash classes, and also giveaways. Love it, right. And then the other thing that's in there that we didn't talk about was workshops, those fit in there as well, they can actually be interchangeable, we could pop them sort of right underneath a webinar as well. The first thing that I want to say about this, and I know Allison, I want you to cut in at any point here, because this is this is a little bit my jam, but it's also yours as well. Starting, when you look at an event type of this build, I want you to look at the amount of connection that it creates. So the mack daddy of list building, like how many people it'll pull in, and how much connection it can create is a summit. A summit is usually either pre recorded interviews with experts who are within your niche, or live interviews, by the way easier to do pre recorded, just gonna say. And then those are released at a set date and time, over a three day or a four day. It's like going to an online conference or in person conference, but it's done online and completely virtually. The goal is to use your experts reach or lists to then transfer that credibility over to you.

Unknown Speaker
But

Alyson Lex
I really like what you said about using the experts reach and credibility and transfer it over to you. And so I am actually going to disagree with you on one thing now. To me a summit is not the best way to create connection with your audience.

Jennie Wright
You're actually right about that is the best way to grow your list. love it when

Alyson Lex
you say that. That's my favorite phrase. You're right. Allison, by the way, is my favorite phrase. Anyway, a summit is the best way to grow your list in terms of speed and size is going to have the biggest results. That being said, You can't just slap it together.

Unknown Speaker
No

Alyson Lex
summit work when they're highly niched in their very, very well done

Unknown Speaker
very well planned.

Alyson Lex
The experts are chosen appropriately and curated.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, really,

Alyson Lex
really well. I'm actually planning a summit right now for June and have seen people that have huge reach. And I'm like, can I make this topic fit?

Jennie Wright
As soon as you say that that just goes no

Unknown Speaker
bakley? Nope. It's so ugly.

Jennie Wright
Sort of a boil it down. summits? Are these really cool online events? Absolutely. It's like a virtual conference. Experts promote it for you, because the experts promote it for you. As well as you promoting its organic traffic. organic traffic tends to get us better leads than cold traffic does. So you do end up with a larger list build when you do a summit. And you can although I say Allison is right, I am going to also push back a little bit you can create a ton of connection. If you do what I train my clients on which is inserting various connection point things in the summit, right? So you can create that transfer credibility and that connection. But it takes a little bit of extra, and it makes it happen. It's not within the quote unquote normal summit model. This is something that I've added in with the way that I do summits with my clients, and it creates additional connection.

Unknown Speaker
The next look ahead,

Alyson Lex
I was going to say, what I really like to do is host a summit, and then host a challenge. Because for me, a challenge is awesome, when it comes to creating that connection, they're with you for X number of days, you get to spend more time with them interact with them face to face, or one on one. And that to me, and obviously, you know, slightly different strategies here, although I do love all of Jenny's connection points, and include them in what I want to do

Unknown Speaker
better.

Alyson Lex
But I really like adding a challenge at the end, and it's a little extra work. But having a challenge right after the summit will allow you to really hyper engage the leads that you get from that summit.

Jennie Wright
Challenges create a challenges are like landing on a desert island with 50 or 100 other people and you will have to work together to get through the next week until you can get taken off the island. It creates fast friendships, raving fans high connection, it can create sales, it identifies hot and ready leads like nothing else, it also shows the weak points, not only in yourself in your list build as well as the leads that are coming in. So you get a real quick understanding. You know, if you did the right type of marketing and the right type of list build, so if your title and tagline for your challenge pulled in people that are subpar to what you want, right, as a result of your marketing and the direction that you went with, then you can go Oh, crap, okay, I wanted people who were like your three to five that kind of understood this, or people who were struggling with ABC versus XYZ. And all I got was the people who were x, y Z's. So something was amiss. A challenge is going to highlight all these amazing things. But it's also going to give you that interpretation of where you have opportunities, the next step down. So if we can talk about some it's being the biggest possible list build that you'll get. And the next one down are challenges because you can create a very robust list build from a challenge, right, the next step down are webinars, classes and workshops, those are still really high connecting, because you're creating that two way conversation. So if you think about it, some it's your you have to add extra things to extra things in to create that two way conversation. But you can, but it's not going to be as highly connecting as a challenge challenges are incredibly high connecting. The next step down is webinars, classes and workshops, you'll get a modest less build, unless you're throwing a ton of money through facebook ads, but you'll get a modest less build, you're still getting highly nation, people who have problems they want to solve. And they want to receive help. Those people are a step above in terms of like, you know, just like yeah, I want free and meat, but information some of those people like yeah, I want free information. But I'm also ready to do something about it. Right. I like that with webinars, classes and workshops.

Alyson Lex
Want to be really clear, just very quickly, that we're not talking about those Uber fluffy webinars that are more story and testimonial than content. We are talking more class real training workshop that has a call to action at the end. Totally cool to have that, by the way. We love calls to action. But this is not just super fluff. This is value first. Ask after.

Jennie Wright
Thank you for pointing that out. Because it is so true. Allison and I have been on hundreds of webinars even at the same time together going are you hearing this? This is actually happening? Are we still are we 25 minutes in and we still have not heard one piece of actionable information?

Alyson Lex
Do you remember that test I did with the I forget who's what, you know what was years ago? But I was like, I'm gonna stay on this thing that you left you get on?

Jennie Wright
I was like, screw this. I'm out. I said I'm gonna

Alyson Lex
stay until there's actionable content.

Unknown Speaker
Yep.

Alyson Lex
And I was 52 minutes in. Yeah. 52 for the first piece of actionable content. And I'm not talking about new to me content. I knew everything that this person was saying. That's not the kind of webinar we're talking about. We're talking about something that's going to actually make a difference for people. actually teach them something, actually show your expertise actually bring value. I can't say this enough, actually do all the things you actually do all. Okay, so, like Jenny said, modest list build, you know, you are going to get some people, this one doesn't require really as much quote unquote, work. It does require work, okay, they all, they're not all just going to, you know, snap your fingers grow your list. But it doesn't require as much time effort, energy investment, as a challenge, and definitely not as much as a summit. Then the step down from that, in terms of engagement is a giveaway.

Jennie Wright
I like giveaways a lot. I'm actually planning a giveaway right now with an author to help virtually launch her book, you know, pandemic times and stuff can't go to book signing things. And Allison and I, at the time of this recording are also planning a giveaway. So, giveaways are cool, giveaways are less engaging in terms of creating connection. They're less work than a summit. However, there is work involved. So there's still and there's a good long planning period. So it's not something you're going to put up in two weeks, it's something that takes sufficient time to plan. But at the same time, you know, it's less work than a summit is which is totally fine. The goal of a giveaway is you gather a bunch of like minded slash, same niche, niche adjacent people to what you do. And people you create, you know, an event where it's like, enter your name, and email, and you will receive access to these amazing like 40 or 50, free gifts. Your participants who sorry, your budget, not your your participants, the experts, you can either make it free for them, or you can charge them a small fee $25 $50, some people charge more for more exposure, and they help you promote it. And there's an offer at the end the offers usually a course, it's a good way to grow for a course. And on the scale of you know, connection, it's lower on the scale of list building done right, it can be very, very good. And you can put ads towards this thing. So it really does depend on how you sort of lay it out. They can work very, very well. And people tend to use them about once a year in their businesses. So if that's something that sounds appealing, then that might be a way for you guys to go as well.

Alyson Lex
One thing that you mentioned, that was really interesting, and I think that is going to help us figure out which ellisville to focus on is What's your goal. I actually like starting with your goal, when I'm looking at what to focus on. Because if my goal is to create, you know, add 2000 people to my email list, am I going to get there with a webinar? Probably not. And if it's to do it all at once, okay, is that an always on lead magnet? Probably not. So by looking at what your goal is, you can actually begin to whittle down which one is most likely to work for you.

Jennie Wright
And the goal may not even be the list build. So the goal might actually be how many students you want to get into a course. Or how many one on one clients that you want to close. It is all about the math. If you're trying to close 50 students into a course and your current list is only 250 on your email list. Chances are if you were to try and launch to that list, then you're not going to get your 50 students. Math wise Allison, what's the conversion rate to a purchase right now? What's the standard?

Alyson Lex
Um,

Unknown Speaker
five?

Alyson Lex
It's a really hard question, because it depends on how warmed up the traffic is. Depends on how long they've known you. It depends on the pricing. So I would say 5% is a high number. I just don't really manage expectations. I mean, I know that with really warm traffic to a good priced offer. That was kind of a no brainer. We've gotten like what 44 but that's not anywhere near industry standard. So I would just really not count on 50% conversion, don't count 20% conversion, don't do that.

Jennie Wright
So if you're if your goal if your goal is to get 50 students into your class, and we're talking at the high end a 5% conversion rate, let's just The very high end, then you need a minimum of 1000 people on your email list that you can pitch to. Now, not everybody opens your emails. If you have a 50%, open rate on your emails, and you want 50 students 1000, people need to open your email, and then you need to convert that 5%. So technically, you need 2000 people on your email list, right. And if on the low end, the conversion rate is 2%, or even 2.5%, then you need to double all those numbers. So those are just some metrics that are numbers that I want you to think about. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to have a bigger list to get more conversions, you need to have a list of buyers, and that you can do through the types of list builds, I will caveat everything that we're saying, because I had a list of 356 people and was making a six figure income from it. Because every person on that list was interested in the thing that I was doing. And I was able to convert at a higher rate.

Alyson Lex
I'm really, really glad you said that. Because as we started talking these metrics, I got a little worried that we were going to join all of those other voices that are saying, you have to have a 10,000 person email list before you can think about launching anything. I don't want anybody to get stuck in that trap. This is not just a numbers game, it's important to know the numbers, it's important to understand what the possibilities are. But it doesn't mean that you need to have this huge email list. We're just trying to help you manage your expectations. You are not likely to sell 100 seats in a course, with a 200 person email list, you're not likely know that no.

Jennie Wright
And the next thing that you want to consider is your bandwidth. And your bandwidth includes your life. It includes your style of working, it includes how often you want to work and what you understand as your ability, right? And it also includes if you can afford to hire people to support and help you as an example, can you afford? And do you need a high conversion copywriter and a funnel builder that on average, you know, can get you an opt in rate of about 55%? Well, if you can do it, because I mean this these are the kinds of results you can get. But can you afford a va? Can you afford a graphic designer to help out and create some good graphics? So things to consider. The other thing is, is that let's just say you have a new child at home or a young child at home. And you haven't you know, because maybe daycares are closed in your area for a lockdown. And you're taking care of that kid all the time. How much bandwidth Do you have, you have an hour a day, maybe you know what I mean? Or let's just say that you struggle with concentration, maybe you have ADHD or other issues with concentration. And the most we can get out of you out of the day to work on something like this is maybe a couple hours. And then you know with the other stuff that you have to do in your life, like you're done. And these are real things. So consider your bandwidth on all aspects to understand, which is the right type of this build, I don't want you to go for a summit. If it's going to be something that's going to throw you into a tailspin over complicate your life make it impossible for you to enjoy the life that you already have. And struggle with you know the other various components because you're not going to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you're not going to do it again.

Alyson Lex
Well, and we did talk about this a little bit back in Episode 32 when we talked about how to host your list, build and still run your business, right because bandwidth is a concern for a lot of people. If you really, really want to do a summit and you know that you have limited bandwidth, then what that means is your timeline now gets longer. And so that's a consideration to what your timeline if you want to be up and running and ready for promo in two weeks. summit is not the right thing for you. If you know that this is a six or eight month project, and you're really just starting to think about it now then a summit is a possibility for you. Right and so Jenny I believe you recommend no fewer than 90 but preferably 120 days to play.

Jennie Wright
I do the the most popular is yeah you can get you know is that bro marketing yo you can go to summit up in 90 days. No don't. You can get it up in 90 days. You can get it going in 90 days, but what are you sacrificing so and the result is never exactly what we hope you know we don't need to be pushing ourselves that hard. Do it in 120 days by way for months and make it easier on yourself. Please because if you if You're going to get a better result, the better you plan, the better result you're going to get. And trust me that extra 30 some odd days can make a huge difference for the amount of stuff that needs to get done. And the result that you're going to get as a as, like from doing it. The other thing to consider is, when you're only planning a summit with 90 days, good luck getting really good experts to say yes to you, because they're the people whose promo calendars are filling up. And what you'll end up doing and going, Oh, my entire roster of ideal experts has said no to me, I'm now going to go down to my second tier people. And so you're accepting a lower and not lower and a lower? Also, what's the right word I'm looking for here?

Alyson Lex
You're, you're basically you're not getting your first choice. Thank

Jennie Wright
you, you're,

Alyson Lex
and that can, I'm not just talking about, hey, I want the person with the 20,000 people following Yeah, and talking about the quality of the content, the expertise, as well as the credibility that that person will help lend to your event. My summit is a good mix of, quote, unquote, names people recognize, and names people don't, because I'm focused on the quality of the content that I want to bring to my audience. I also really like the idea, and I mentioned this earlier, do not feel like you have to just choose one. You can I hosted a challenge in January. I'm hosting a webinar soon. I'm hosting a summit in June. I already said I'm going to do a challenge after that. Listen, I know right, Jenny, so proud of me. I'm doing a giveaway with Jenny. Like I'm doing them all. I'm not just picking one type for my business I because I recognize that they all have different uses and different benefits. So I'm strategically placing them in places to get those benefits where I want them.

Jennie Wright
Yep. So the other thing, which she's talking about is to also consider, here's here's a really good way to look at it. Don't do what Jenny did. And plan a summit when you're moving.

Unknown Speaker
Right? twice, twice. Yeah,

Jennie Wright
don't even or Plan A Yeah, okay, that was I earned that one. Don't do it, it will cause so much headache. So you have to think about what's going on in your life. So work your way backwards is the whole point we're talking about, figure out the goal that you want to achieve, ie the list build that you want to create, or the amount of people that you need, figure out your life? Are you moving? Is something happening? Are you having a baby is you know, are you getting married are things happening? plan around those as well. Consider your bandwidth in totality. And then the next thing is, is asking your audience, finding out what your ideal client or your possible ideal client needs in terms of the kinds of things that they would attend is important. If your people are all about the workshop and the webinar, then hosting a challenge may not be the thing. Or maybe they're just some people you never know. And it's worth asking them. And you can ask them questions that are qualifying questions in Facebook groups, or through email. If you have an email list, and saying things like, Hey, I'm thinking about creating some really great content for you. How do you like to learn? How do you like to receive content? Do you like to show up to daily sessions? Do you like to watch pre recorded interviews in your own time?

Do you like doing an interactive workshop? What is it that makes you know, what's the best way for you to learn and gather that data because that's the kind of data that's really going to help you determine the list build that you should be creating.

Alyson Lex
Always ask your audience. If you want to know something, find out from them. They people will tell you what they want. Now, again, caveat there. We don't necessarily have to take what they say, as cannon here. If they all say, Oh, I want a summit, I want a summit. But then you realize that they don't necessarily engage with pre recorded stuff, or things like that.

Unknown Speaker
Maybe don't,

Alyson Lex
you know, take that into account too. So get to know your audience, consider what they're saying and how they act. And choose, just choose. And if you need help, let's help you.

Jennie Wright
Absolutely. We can absolutely help with that. You know, if there's something in here that makes sense to you, or that connects with you, then why not? Try and get a little bit more clarity if the clarity is something that you need. So, checking out how and what could be the proper the proper list build for you is important, but also sometimes speaking to somebody or somebodies that have the experience also helps. This is why our recommend that you go to System to thrive.com. And actually check out having a thrive call with Allison and I, so that we can help you figure this out, we're happy to sit down with you, we're happy to go through this with you, we're happy to help plan it for you. And also give you a strategy that could really, really work and point you in the right direction, because you might be thinking one thing, but after you talk, and have a conversation with two experts on this, what you might realize is that you had the wrong list build planned or that you might need to go in a slightly different direction to achieve the goals that you're trying to get to. So something to consider, we're here if you need us, I have a couple takeaways that I want to share with you as a result of this episode, which I think are really fun to do. The first takeaway is know when you're ready to list build, and what your list build needs to be to fit the needs not only for yourself, but your business, plan it out properly, and get the help that you need. Please don't try and do all of these types of list builds on your own and expected amazing results. If you're not good at you know if you're not good at graphics, if you're not good at Tech, if you're not good at copywriting farm that out because you need to save yourself, the time, the effort, the worry, the freakouts, the stress of trying to do it all on your own, because you're actually going to spend more time there than you need to. And just remember, this is not all a numbers game. This is a list build that has to kind of fit into your life and your goals and your way of working and what you want and how you want to connect with people. And it has to feel a little bit more esoteric than just the math. So really fit that in. And then the bonus here is if you're ready to talk about a list build alson I would love to help you figure that out. And that's System to thrive.com forward slash thrive plan. I want to say thank you for listening to this episode. Alyson. I love creating content for you. We hope you're enjoying it. If you're not already, please do consider subscribing to the podcast or following the podcast depending on which terminology is now being used when you're watching this. Or sorry listening to this because Apple changed it. And also leaving us a review. We'd love reviews. We love hearing from you. We want to know all the things about what you think about the podcast good, bad, ugly, awesome, and help us to make great episodes in the future. Thanks so much for being here and we'll talk to you all soon. Answering another big question. Take care

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