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The experts you choose for your list build summit can, frankly, make or break your success. And it can also feel incredibly overwhelming to think about choosing experts, figuring out where to find them, and knowing how to tell whether they’re a good fit for your event.

In this episode we’ll break down the must-haves and must-nevers when it comes to choosing experts for your summit. Both from our own personal summits and Jennie’s experience producing over 300+ summits.


More episodes to help you plan your summit…

Episode 06 – 11 Reasons You're Not Building Your List (and what to do about it)
Episode 80 – What a summit producer REALLY does vs. what people think they do
Episode 10 – How to Engage Your List (after your list build) To Create Raving Fans
Episode 117 – Building Your Sustainable Social Strategy with Andréa Jones
Episode 18 – Your Promotion Timeline: What to promote, when, and how (no matter how long your promo period is)
Episode 32 – How to host a list build and still run your business
Episode 36 – How To Engage Your Audience For Maximum Results During Your List Build
Episode 37 – How to Successfully Use Upsells to Monetize a Free Event
Episode 50 – Which List Build Is Right For Me?
Episode 66 – Behind The Scenes of 2 Summit Launches 6 Weeks Apart
Episode 74 – Boost Your Summit VIP Sales with These 3 Expert Strategies
Episode 88 – How To Use a List Build If You Sell Physical Products

Our transcript hasn't been proofed, so there will probably be some errors. Sorry about that!

Alyson Lex 0:02
summit's can be a magical unicorn list built that will add hundreds or 1000s of subscribers to your email list. Simply by leveraging your and your experts audiences online. I recently did one, I loved the experience, I got some really amazing growth on my list, I developed fantastic relationships with my experts. Jenny's done like 300 over 300 of them. So we're gonna pull on some of her know how some of my experience today to talk about finding the best experts. Because I followed her roles. And I was successful. We've done a bunch of different podcast episodes about summits. And we're going to go ahead and link to a bunch of them in the resources section at System to So check that out. But we've never done one about selecting guest experts in this is a question we see in the Facebook groups in our own personal DMS all the time. If you don't notice some it is gear up, I'm going to give you the 32nd rundown. They are a collaborative interview style list build, usually about 25 experts or so that's exactly how many I had. I'm appearing on one in at the time of this recording in just a couple weeks that has a hair over 30. All those experts were chosen because they fit into the same niche, or a niche adjacent to you the host. The experts are really a key part of your summit, because they promote your summit to their audiences who will in turn sign up for the event. That's why this is an organic list, but we're using organic promotion, they're usually free to register, there might be a VIP option takes a long time to plan. Well, we like to say plan for 120 days to plan it out. But you can add a ton of people to your email list that you can then market to later.

Jennie Wright 2:07
I love that 32nd rundown That was awesome. So there's a couple things you need to do before you actually start even looking for experts. A lot of people skip this step that I'm about to talk about. And this is what can cause problems later on down the line. So buyer beware kind of thing. If you skip this step, you may run into issues later on. So don't skip this step. This is the what to do before you even start looking. Before you even start looking for experts, you absolutely need to know the end goal for your event. What are you going to be offering afterwards? Are you going to be offering one on one coaching private coaching products, program services, a membership? How are you going to monetize or want to monetize this after the event because the summit should revolve around the end goal. Never ever, ever, ever do a summit where you just do it and then you'll figure it out later. This is the wrong approach. And it doesn't work in the long run, trust me asked me how I know. So the thing you want to check out is making sure that your ideal client is who you're going to be targeting this whole list build too. So who is your ideal client for this list build, figure that out, put that on paper. And then what's the topic of this summit that is going to attract your ideal client that you just did in the previous step and speak to the thing that you're going to be offering off the end like after the summit. As an example, if you are doing a summit or if you are a vegan raw food coach, you're not going to do a summit on weight loss solutions and have experts on your event who talk about paleo and you know, keto and eating a ton of meats or anything like that, because that they're not going to have your ideal client on their list. And when the summit's over and you go to like offer that, you know that one on one coaching program for raw food vegan eating, you're gonna get a whole bunch of people who are, you know, not into vegan eating, who are just gonna be like what the actual and they're gonna leave. So not a good thing. You also must have criteria for your experts 100% write this down. If your summit is going to be about a certain topic, then the must haves are that the experts fit into and what else I was saying earlier is that niche, right, and you have to write your non negotiables You must have these non negotiables. If you go off of this list, that is completely you put yourself out in the wild west follow this list, you'll have some success. All experts must promote. All experts must promote this is the tattoo, an invisible link that I want you to get on both forearms and your forehead. They must promote no more than one or two big names should be on you're not getting it like on your summit. Those people tend to attract They don't always want to follow until the line of promotion. But just so you're aware like it's one or two, you don't want to have a bunch of the big names, I will tell you right now that wanting to have somebody who has 250,000 people on your list on their list actually doesn't convert to high registrations and high signups and Allison is nodding her head like crazy, because she knows, we want the worker bees, okay, we want the people who will actually do the job, promote the event, be in it, and we're gonna talk about this more later. Also, think about your non negotiable in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion is it's important to you. And if so, then you're going to be choosing experts that will make sure that you have a great balance of diversity and inclusion, something to think about.

Alyson Lex 5:49
I am nodding my head along about the big names, but I also have a follow up question for you. Because you're the summit expert. Is it appropriate ever, to bring on a big name that you know, is not going to promote? But you want them for the attraction? Because, you know, in our industry, let's say I was able to get Brendon Burchard or Tony Robbins, right, people would sign up in droves to see them, but I know they promote me.

Jennie Wright 6:20
What do you think you are 100% correct, that they would sign up in droves, however, that I've seen that work, and I've seen it also not work, Alison and I recently worked on a summit where there was a really big name. And just that person's name alone should have been a huge, huge draw. But it wasn't because the rest of the the rest of the event, the marketing for that event didn't actually capitalize on that person. So if you're going to have one big name, and you can absolutely like if you can get the Tony Robbins or the Brendon Bouchard, or the ryan Levesque, and you know, the Marie Forleo is and etc, etc. If you can get somebody like that on your event, they're never gonna promote for you. But what you can do is capitalize on their name. But you really don't want to do more than one of those people because you need everybody else to be promoting. But what you can do is you can highlight them in your promo, and you're highlighting them in your marketing to say it's, you know, 25 experts plus the world renowned so and so, or, you know, highlighting that person and using them as a draw. So in return for them being on your event, but not promoting, you're able to capitalize on the currency they've created online with their name and their reputation. That's huge. The other non negotiable. And I and this is just a follow up to Allison's follow up to my questions or my things. The last non negotiable is they must have a list must must must have a list. Because I've seen people go Oh, but Jenny, someone so has 200, you know, 27,000 people on her Instagram. Is that okay? But what's your email list? Oh, it's about 500 questionable, because a list is the list of how we're going to get people to register emails to the experts lists how we're going to get the most registrations versus social media. And Allison Allison can attest from this 100% that, you know, just using social media is not the only Avenue. It's an informational Avenue. But it doesn't always Garner as many signups as people think.

Alyson Lex 8:25
I like that they must have a list. When I was doing mine, I did look at their social to see how highly engaged their social media was. Because if they had, they put out an Instagram Live or whatever, and it was like crazy engagement, tons of comments, tons of follows tons of whatever. Well, then I knew that we could leverage that social as an opportunity for promotion. So it's a consideration. But it's not a replacement. So I really like the way that you mentioned that. Alright, so what to look for. We've talked about your non negotiables. But now how do you begin to kind of weed through all the people that are out there? The first thing, find the people with the same target audience as you. This does not mean that they're competitors. This means their collaborators, potential collaborators, people who serve the same people as you in a different way. People who solve similar problems that an audience your audience has, that may not be the exact one that you solve. Basically, they have your ideal client, on their list and in their following. Okay, you also want to find those that fit within your topic, and this was something that I really struggled to do, because I had created such a tight topic. My summit was all about conversion. A lot of people in my industry teach about visibility and authority building. I'm branding. And although they are amazing experts with amazing followings and incredible content, they didn't fit my topic. And it got to the point where I had to say, if I'm trying to make it work, it doesn't work. If I'm trying to figure out how to fit it in, it doesn't fit. Okay? You want them to fit your vision and your values. A really good example of this is when I was reaching out to potential experts, which we'll talk about where to find those in a minute. One of my potential experts responded back to me and said, Hey, I get a lot of requests. I'm curious about what you are doing to ensure diversity and inclusion. Because it's really important to me, well, funnily enough, it was really important to me too. And so I was able to respond to her and say, here's what I'm doing. Here's how I'm being intentional about it. Here's what I've achieved so far, as far as you know, in regard to it. And we had that alignment in our vision and our values. You want that you want somebody who's going to be with you in that way. You also want to find people who I mentioned it earlier have that high engagement. If they have 30 bajillion people in their Facebook group, but they make a post and it gets four likes. That is not the kind of engagement you're looking for. Okay, those are collectors, not builders. Okay, you do not want people who are going to simply collect people into their community, you want people who are intentionally building a community of your ideal person. Okay. This is hard to do. It's hard to sit there and judge someone based on what they're showing you. Okay, so a couple of things that you can look for is one engagement on social media. You can also lightly stalk their website, do they have an opt in? are they running ads? Do they seem that they are putting an effort toward list building? If they are, then chances are they are building a list, see how that works. If they're putting the effort into engaging on social media, if they're putting the effort into building a list, it's not that far of a leap, to imagine that they will put the effort into being an amazing guest for your event.

Jennie Wright 12:48
There's one thing I want to add to that. Allison, you said some seriously good stuff on there. And I think everybody needs to pay attention, especially when you were saying that you want people who were intentionally creating or building a following or intentionally working on their phone. But the other thing that I wanted to mention on this was that the people you want to look out for are the people who actually are committed and look like they'll make a relationship. If you start reaching out to people on your event, or for your event as an expert, and you're getting one word answers, or it takes them five days to respond or they don't seem super interested. And there's literally like, they don't give a crap about who you are as a person. They're not saying Hey, how are you and how is your kid and things like that they're not into the relationship building. That's another thing that you want to look out for. As a positive or a negative, I really want the relationship building because the relationship building is absolutely going to be the thing that's going to help solidify a relationship and help you create a long term relationship and also get more registrations for my summit and for Allison's the people that created connection and who were you know, easy to talk to? And you know, just were like, yeah, that sounds good. How's your day going? What's going on with you? And, and just actually being a human being? Those are the people who were more engaged in in the actual promotion, versus the people who are like, yep, where's my link? Yep, do this. Yep, do that. And I've got all transactional, Oh, that's good. The relationship or be something and not transactional. If I can figure out the right wording, Allison can probably do that. But I know where I'm going with it.

Alyson Lex 14:33
I think too, it's important to remember that the value out of hosting a summit is not just in the email list, and I feel like we've done an episode on this. What you get, I think it's in the water summit producer really does. episode we'll link to that in the show notes. The value is not just an email list that you build. It's also in the relationships that you create. You really want to focus on the people that you want those long term relationships with, not just so they can refer you clients or be clients themselves. But people who will lift you up people who will encourage you, people that you're excited to potentially work with in the future. Because your network will grow as a result of your event. That's just what it is.

Jennie Wright 15:27
That's a really good point, here's a couple things to look out for that are going to help you mitigate any big issues. When you're looking for experts, you want to be aware of the over committers, the people who are promoting a new summit or a new thing every other week, who seemed like they're always in promo mode, and never just providing content and quality and value. Those people are burning their social currency, they're not adding to the social currency piggy bank, they're always pulling from, which means they're always going to struggle to get people to register for the thing because their people are burned. They're very, very burnt. The other thing is, the other thing is low engagement. But also having a high list or a big following. That can also be a total red flag. And then also people for people that you seem to have to squeeze in that's that's also a really big thing, people who, you know, they're not a great, great fit, but you're feeling like you got to add them for whatever reason, and it's not really a great reason. And then you're adding people to your summit that actually shouldn't be on it.

Alyson Lex 16:37
Want to break in really quickly and talk about the over committers, or the big list and following. So it's not a secret. I actually did a tele summit back in 2013. Before online summits and videos on it's worth thing. And I had someone that I was so excited to land on my list.

Unfortunately, she had been a frequent over committer. She had promoted a ton of affiliate offers, she had really burned out her list. And this was before I knew how to track signups. But I tracked clicks, I wasn't selling VIPs, I didn't offer any commission or anything. Which that's a whole nother issue with my strategy. And I think she had like three clicks, clicks, not signups clicks, her list was dead. So learn from my almost decade old mistake. Don't do that. Look for people who really work at building that community can't say that enough.

Jennie Wright 17:59
Now we're harping a little bit, and I'm okay with the harp, because it's so so important. This is the thing that I mean, if I could record myself saying most of this stuff, and make it into one of those sort of gentle, loving voices that you hear when you're about to go to sleep, I would I would put this on an app on my iPhone and send it to all like, I would send it to all my people, so they could hear me before I go to sleep. You know, please make sure that all of your expert like me, like I would just repeat this message over and over. But it's really funny. The thing, the thing we want you to remember is, a lot of this stuff really does matter. And we want you to think about it like the big names. They're not the kind of people that you want to chase. And we think like we think oh my god, I want to have a huge list build. So I'm going to chase the big names, the big names are really not like think about it. Or they're going to give you the time of day, it's great to go after them. If you know somebody who's a big name, sure, go after them. But understand that your you know, the return on investment from them isn't necessarily what you might think it is. So that's another thing. And the other thing to look out for is out of date websites, out of date social profiles, or really no posts or engagement at all. I had people applying to be on my summit and outside people applying to be on her summit, where when we looked at their social media, it was like the last time they had posted was six months ago. And their website still said, you know, copyright, I think one of them said like Copyright 2018 and hadn't been updated in quite some time. So those people are really not keeping things current and moving along. And that's another red flag that I want you to look at.

Alyson Lex 19:40
One of my favorite hints that Jennie gave me was to create an email account specifically. So you can follow some of these possible experts and Jenny and I use our swipe email address for this so it serves the same purpose. Register for the potential experts email lists, see what they send. See how it comes across. See how it lands. This is really like, critical, critical research. I had so many applicants to my summit. And I know that I've worked with a couple of people since then I talked about it. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I had so many applications. And they were like, where do you find them? That seems to be like the big question. I will say that a very large part of the third first 30 days of planning my summit, was searching for experts. So I made a call for speakers page, we're going to talk about that in a minute. I posted it everywhere, on social, but I also focused on the podcast connection groups. I posted it in speaker groups. I posted it in expert groups. I posted it in specific niche groups. Of course, I always cleared it with those group owners to make sure that it was okay to post that as an opportunity. Talk to people you know, ask them for recommendations and referrals. Your network again is key. And then you start searching. I spent a lot of time on clubhouse. So I was always checking people who seemed like they had smart stuff, stuff to say, checked out their Instagram. I did some Instagram searches, I did Facebook searches, I did LinkedIn searches, I was looking on YouTube. And I started just collecting people that might be interesting, digging in doing all the what to look for stuff. And reaching out to people that I thought would be a fit, asking them to hop on a call. Again, we'll talk about that in a minute. And figuring out if they really were a fit for the event.

Jennie Wright 21:55
Here's one of the things that you want to start looking to do next. And Allison already mentioned is the Create a call for speakers page. People tend not to do this step. And they just posted this in groups and stuff like this, they also try and do a lot of reach out. But the problem with that is there's a struggle, right and doing a call for speakers page, sort of eliminate some of the struggle, I'll explain this. So when you're first looking for an expert, and you're trying to find people and you're looking online, you're struggling to find the people a little bit and it can seem like it takes a long time, Allison mentioned that it was like the first couple of weeks of her event where she was really just trying to do this. And it can be quite challenging to do that. And you feel like you're posting everywhere and nothing's happening. And when we create a call for speakers page or call for speakers, little funnel, then we're able to share all the details in one place. And it looks very professional. It also elevates your event by making it seem like it's incredibly organized. This is the feedback that Allison and I get when we do these types of things. Wow, this is so organized. Because there's a whole funnel behind it. There's the whole, you know, call for speakers page and an application which we're going to talk about. So this saves you time and effort by not having to copy and paste the information all over the place all over the internet. And also you can be more thoughtful about the details that you provide. It actually helps you plan your summit. If you do a call for speakers page, because you have to figure these things out. It does totally make you look super professional. It I mean, it doesn't matter if it's your first summit or your third, this makes you look buttoned up. It also helps automate the process. And it can help you get experts more quickly than just by posting in groups. And just being a little bit more willy nilly. This makes it very intentional and intentionality, people notice intentionality. And they're drawn to it. Wow, this looks great. It's professional, everything's laid out. All I have to do is take a look at it, this seems like a fit, I'm going to apply versus Oh, can I get more information. And then now you're in DMS and you're back and forth, and it takes twice as long. So save yourself a bunch of time and a bunch of aggravation, you're going to want to create a call for speakers page, off the back end of that call for speakers page, you're absolutely gonna want to have an application process also. And I would just recommend that you use either a type form or a Google form something where you can just gather the details, right name, email, title, niche, what do you want to talk about your picture, your bio, etc, etc. And this really gathers all the information in one place, and it makes it super easy to start making decisions on the kind of experts that you want. Because now you're comparing apples to apples. You've got all these people in the list and you can be like, Oh, well I really like what so and so's talking about you know, and they seem like a really good fit and then somebody else down the list you're like, not so much. Right? So there's there's this really great way of looking at it on a spreadsheet to be sure. Then you move on to a pre Screening call, I need to emphasize this pre screening calls matter, yes, they take 15 minutes per person. And that can be a little bit of time. However, if you don't do the pre screening call, then you open yourself up to a multitude of issues, like tech issues, things like you know, if you don't do the pre screening call, and you're not able to now also that I even do pre screening calls for this podcast, checking on audio, video, if you guys have a good connection, if the person is only transactional, and wooden, or if they're actually in to actually being a part of it. And you got to ask some deeper questions that really, you know, on the forum, you may not ask, and that's trying to understand what their motivation is, and how they could support. There's a lot of things in here that I think are good, and help. The last step is the onboarding and booking the interview. And that's the last thing that you're going to do in this process. And I know Alison has a couple things that she's going to add to this to also take it away.

Alyson Lex 25:59
I really want to talk about the onboard or the not the onboarding, the pre screen call just for a second, because one of the things I really like to do in a pre screen call is create that collaborative relationship from the get go. So we've really spend time, not just talking details and tech, but building the session. And as a result, on my summit, I had custom sessions, stuff that had never been put anywhere else before it was exclusive to me, I did it first on my event, because we built it on the pre screen call. And it not only allowed me to say you're not going to get this kind of info anywhere else. But it allowed that expert to create brand new content tied directly into my event. And I always made it super collaborative in that, what do you want to offer? How can I tie this to my event, and create a session that bridges that, from my topic to your freebie. So you get the most out of this as well. By creating that super collaborative relationship from minute one. It really improved my relationships with them now that the summit's over

Jennie Wright 27:21
100% agree you can actually start creating those relationships right away. And the pre screening call is also like Allison said, just creating, you know, some connection with people and understanding about people.

Alyson Lex 27:34
I also on the onboarding, created a little process, I use the Gmail template, so it went personally for me to them, but I didn't have to retype it every time. And on onboarding them, again, everything was very thoughtful, very laid out very easy to follow. Here's what you do first, here's what you do next, here's what happens. They're all the information they're going to need. You get them to book their interview right away. Some people even book it right at the end of the pre screen. And so that's something that you can do to get the interview booked. You know, it's in, you know, it's confirmed, but really your onboarding process is going to be just as important as the Find a speaker process. quick story. I applied to be on a summit sent off the application never heard back completely forgot about it. I got an email, like yesterday. Don't forget to book your email. Don't forget to book your interview.

Jennie Wright 28:37

Alyson Lex 28:38
I was never notified that I was accepted. I never had a pre screen call. I had no idea. And this event starts in nine days.

Jennie Wright 28:49
Yeah, that's not happening, by the way.

Alyson Lex 28:50
Like no not happening. I have no idea what you want. For me, it was just a book your interview? Well, what am I talking about? What are we doing? Who are you because I applied so long ago I forgot.

Jennie Wright 29:06
Oh, and don't forget that that person also actually added us to her mailing list where we ended up getting an email a couple of days ago inviting us to a free masterclass. And with the link like we were already registered, which we were not. So we got ninja added to a sales email list for applying to be on her summit. What the outcome to that,

Alyson Lex 29:29
no, don't do that. So but that is the experience you do not want your potential experts to have. You don't want them to get an email that's just like, Huh. You want to make sure they understand every single step. And if you need or want help putting this process together, because I'm talking a lot like I know what I'm doing I've done one. Okay. Jenny has done hundreds of She has produced hundreds and hundreds of summits with this kind of process, organization, attention to detail and results. Okay, so what you want to do is you want to, you can head to System to, hit the contact, just send a message and say, hey, I want to talk to Jenny about summit's, because we'll both get it. And I'll be like, Jenny, somebody was talking about some ads. And we'll make sure that she gets in touch. Because Yeah, the episode that we did about what a summit producer really does was almost like a client interview, where Jenny talked to me about what it's like to do a summit with her help. If you are unsure as to whether having a summit producer is worth it, go listen to that. Go listen to the stuff that I say. Because as much as I love Jenny, if I thought I could do it on my own, I would tell you, and I cannot do it on my own.

Jennie Wright 30:58
She's being very modest. And Allison has, you know, Allison says she's done one summit. But in actuality, through working with some of the stuff that I do with my clients, she 100% has done a lot more in terms of writing the copy. And just as a shameless plug Dallas, and her copy is really, really high converting on a summit. So yeah, that's, you know, go check that out as well, please, Allison, you did good. There's money in the money in the money in the way over to you somehow, for that awesome plug for me. Alright, so we're gonna wrap this up. We're gonna wrap today up with some really cool takeaways that are going to help you understand what it needs, what you need to do, actually, to grab and get the best experts possible for your event. So the key to finding the best experts is to have done your pre planning on your event, it's easier to find the right people, if you know how they're going to fit. Doing it. The other way is going to make it very, you know, round peg, round peg, square hole, square peg, round hole, whatever it is, it's going to make it challenging, I don't care. It just makes it hard. Okay. Start with your planning and figure it out. So that everybody seems to mesh. I am so not on my like euphemisms or whatever this morning. So that's all good.

Alyson Lex 32:11
The second takeaway that we're going to have, which is my first takeaway is follow the people that you're planning to reach out to, we talked about a summit being 120 day process, it can start now, I am planning at the time of this recording a summit for May or June of 2022. And I'm already looking at experts, I'm following them, I'm engaging with them, I'm getting on their lists, this gives me plenty of time to see how they are really to someone that is following them, not someone they're applying with. So set up your swipe email address, get on their email lists, get in their Facebook groups, follow them on Instagram, join their clubhouse rooms, wherever they're showing up, start stopping them a little bit, you want them to a wreck start to recognize your name. And be you want to see what they're really, really doing with their following and their list.

Jennie Wright 33:11
Absolutely, you might do the thing that Alyson just said and realize, you know, in short order that they're not the right fit. Once the you know, sort of once the blushes off the rose a little bit on that you might actually see that. Alright, this is me getting a little hard and a little tough. Never, ever, ever take an expert who's going to push your non negotiables. Okay, there's a reason for this. If they're pushing your non negotiables, they're going to be a problem on your event, they're going to be you know, 31% of the of the experts on your event, but they're going to demand 80% of your attention, they're going to be pushy, they're going to make it difficult, they're going to cause problems. So don't allow experts on your event, just because you need to get numbers in there don't settle if it's not a fit, it's not a fit. If it doesn't get to 25 Oh, well, you know, we'll find other people, it's possible, keep looking, don't settle settling is going to cause you problems in the long run, trust me on that one.

Alyson Lex 34:11
And my second takeaway is to really look for experts and speakers who are into building that relationship with you. I had a couple on my event that I haven't spoken to since I have a couple that were on my event that I talked to weekly or every other day. And the ones that I talked to weekly or every other day, I value those relationships very, very highly. We started working on something together, we're going to continue working on things together. And it's built into more opportunities, because they are into relationships and collaborations.

Jennie Wright 34:43
So, so true. Hopefully this has been helpful. I hope it's energized you and thinking that you can find some really great experts for your event, because you actually can, once you sort of embody some of the stuff that we're talking about today, it's really not that difficult. It becomes rote. It really it's simple for you because you can Start looking at people going, Oh, yeah, they're a fit. Oh, no, they're not. And it really gets a lot easier, the more you do it. So go ahead and start doing that now, you can start building your list of potential experts. Now, even if you don't think you're going to do a summit till June of 2022. And I'm just glad that Alyson is talking about doing another summit because it was such You know, it was took me six years, you guys six years to get her to do one guy. That's just, it took a long time. And now she's talking about doing another one. I'm happy about it. Alright, so let's wrap this up. If you want to catch more episodes for the System to THRIVE, go to System to Make sure you're checking out the resources, as well as all the show notes for this particular episode. We will link to the other episodes that are relevant for this one so that you can connect with those and get more information, head on over to System to That's where those live and make sure you're following us and sharing with your friends. We absolutely love for people to be able to listen to this and hopefully get lots out of it. So go ahead and do that. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back again soon answering another big question.



Episode 161 – The Biggest Needle Mover for a Successful Challenge with Stirling Gardner

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